Question re AI Modding

[Rollo]

Originally posted by JLS:
Absolutely Rollo, this is feasible as long as it is understood that any time an Enemy enters your AI’s Territory that it will now Subscribe to this non-default AI State := Defend (Short Term), Infrastructure
Un till that enemy is cleared... (snip)

exactly, and this is the whole reason behind it. Since it is very common that some enemy ship is nearby (be it some scout or even colony ship) I like the AI to just follow the 'main plan'.
In regards to Defend (Long Term), I cannot recall seeing an AI in this state once. It is rare to say the least.

And (may not reset) to Entry 1 of the non-defaulted and combined Infrastructure State; after the AI has cleared the Enemy and is directed to resume the Infrastructure State. Because in that layout, it is already producing in that State

Not sure what you mean by that '(may not reset)', since the AI will work it's way down the queue starting with entry 1 every turn.

[ October 07, 2003, 23:42: Message edited by: Rollo ]

[JLS]

Rollo, you are introducing an AI doctrine that you feel is best for the environments that you perceive, and your doctrines are solid; please do not misunderstand me. Your doctrine offers a great deal towards AI growth and probable economic options.

However, the AI is hard coded to change States when another non-treaty Empires Ship enters your AI's territory and that AI State is AI State := Defend (Short Term). If Defend (Short Term) is paired with another AI State so-be-it and is irrelevant, the AI will not change States again until there is no longer an enemy ship in its territory. In addition, the AI may decide to continue to the Defend (Long Term) State, which in actuality is nothing more then a continuation of the (Short Term state) build process with the default Vehicle Construction File.

So basically to say, with a Lay out of AI State := Defend (Short Term), Infrastructure; and the Enemy is not cleared from that AI’s Territory that as far as the Vehicle Construction file is concerned, the whole Category of the non-default {Defend (Short Term), Infrastructure} is in actuality the continuation of the now non-existent Defend (Long Term) State; that was once combined as above.

~

Also to say that the Hard Code will allow the AI to change from the Defend (Short Term) States, ONLY after the enemy is cleared, and excluding (Long Term); that this will yield only TWO strategy state options for that AI:

1: Explore State and only if there is NOT an Enemy controlled System nearby and there is in fact an unexplored System near.

2: Infrastructure State and only if the Enemy is still near but not actually in its Territory and there are no Un-explored Systems nearby.
= = = =

exactly, and this is the whole reason behind it. Since it is very common that some enemy ship is nearby (be it some scout or even colony ship) I like the AI to just follow the 'main plan'.

You are asserting your “main plan” and it would be unwise and/or disrespectful for me to comment on all the Pros and any Cons of your doctrine.

Other then to say, as I posted above; in regards to some obvious strengths.
- - - -

In regards to Defend (Long Term), I cannot recall seeing an AI in this state once. It is rare to say the least.

I will risk a response to this with disregard to the uncertainty of the location of your Defend (Long Term) AI State's placement in your Vehicle Construction file.

What I proposes is happening to your Defend (Long Term) and only as this applies to your Vehicle Construction file is that; what is probably happening, is that the Continuation from Short Term defend to Long Term Defend can not happen, and that this continuation for Long Term Defend is in your: Defend (Short Term)--> that will Continue to your combined---> Infrastructure State…
- - - -

And (may not reset) to Entry 1 of the non-defaulted and combined Infrastructure State; after the AI has cleared the Enemy and is directed to resume the Infrastructure State. Because in that layout, it is already producing in that State

This is based on above:

“Also to say that the Hard Code will allow the AI to change states; ONLY after the enemy is cleared, and that this will yield only TWO strategy state options for that AI:"
2: Infrastructure State and only if the Enemy is still near but not actually in its Territory and there are no Un-explored Systems nearby.”


If your AI is already in the Infrastructure State as it is also paired with the Defend (Short Term). Now when it comes out of the Defend (Short Term) State it is already in the Infrastructure State

Hence as it is already producing in that Category it may not reset to Entry 1 of your: AI State := Defend (Short Term), Infrastructure; with in your Vehicle Construction file Category.



[ October 08, 2003, 19:35: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Niltrias]

Is there some place where the various triggers that change the AI state are described? I have no idea how to determine what state an AI is in, so I can't figure out how you know what the triggers are for changing them. If someone could give me a pointer on that, it would be very appreciated.

[JLS]

JLS
Captain
Member # 3718

posted June 22, 2003 17:37
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Assuming no changes from se4 Version 1.78

On average the most AI State Changes, from the Exploration State is to:
1: Defend Short Term State
2: Infrastructure State
3: Not Connected State

Ok, from the first Exploration State; your AI just went into Infrastructure State, as we have previously discussed, by either (A)or(B)

A: Your AI had an agreement with another Player and Your AI no longer had Systems, reasonably close to Explore, your AI would go into the Infrastructure State.

If (A) was the only Variable, the AI or AI’s will live happily ever-after. Remain in Infrastructure and (may) Consider Not Connected State, at some point.

However, ALL: AI Settings Files, Anger Files, Politics Files and Accept Treaties; WILL always be in play. It is probable at some point, that/those AI may not like; living happily ever-after forever, and break the (Existing Treaty with the other Original Player)

===

B: If there is an Enemy Near but not in the Claimed Territory, then your AI may go into Infrastructure State

If (B) is the only variable to consider, and other Player had no agreement, then from the Infrastructure State.

If the Enemy Players System are Nearby, the AI may Consider the Prepare Attack State then to consider the actual * Attack State.
(This is why continuing a new game, when you start next to Psychos, like the XiChung; is not usually a winnable choice, in any se4 Game)
-
The AI may just consider the Incursion State early with a quick Muster, if that AI considers the enemies systems, is not well defended.
---
(C):The AI (may) Consider a Prepare for Defense State.
If the (adjacent system vs. Home/System) Ship strength numbers are not even near favorable
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((D)): If your AI, IS IN any State mentioned above, and ANY ENEMY Player has entered your territory, then your AI WILL Change to Defend Short Term State for a few turns :

Your AI will now; analyze its current Situation, IF-THEN :

IF enemy is still in its territory after a few turns go by, it will remain in the Defend Short Term State * that may continue to * Prepare for Defense State, and in the end; to Defend (Long Term) State.
-----
Until:
(E) Enemy is NOT IN that AI’s territory and there are NO Systems to Explore; then your AI may revert to the ~(B) Infrastructure State

FROM (E)to(B)THEN and IF , Enough time since the Last Attack has passed from your AI Settings File (XiChung @ Turns to Wait until next attack := 6) then your AI WILL consider from (B) Infrastructure State again, for an Attack or an Incursion

(F) However, from Defend Short Term, if no enemy is in that AI territory, or nearby and there are Systems to Explore still; then your AI may revert all the way back to the Exploration State and start the above process, from the Scenario you presented; all over again.

===========================================

Definitions and Actions:

AI Defend Short Term Strategic State:
This would be the first stage for the AI Player, to boot the other Enemy player out of his territory and for that AI to analyze its current Status for that current Situation
(Continues for about 5 turns. Then this AI will make a decisive decision; for the next State Change)
As outlined in ((D)),(E), and (F).
-

AI Prepare to Attack State:
AI considers a nearby enemy system is weak and could be conquered. Your AI will now prepare a Fleet/Fleets and get ready to attack that system.

AI Attack State:
Your AI will now consider this to be a valid and doable Attack, if so, then the AI will attack that Enemy System and attempt to conquer it.

In both the above, Prepare for Attack, Attack States, your AI has some save guards, so your AI may revert to various other states, however, the State you DO want to see, as the next change, is the:

Secure Holdings State
Your AI’s attack has been completed and it was VICTORIOUS.

Your AI will send in ships to secure the system (a few pre-built defense ships will do well here, if any planets were captured +Happy , and your AI will now want to colonize any empty planets…
This is were your next best Colony Expansion Policy, should reap, the next best and safest rewards

When in the Secure Holdings State and that newly conquered System is now totally secured; your AI will revert back to ~(B) Infrastructure State...
And your AI, may start the process all over again, begining from ~(B) Infrastructure State

Also note: If any Enemy enters any Territory, also from the Secure Holdings State.
Your AI will revert, briefly; to the ((D)) AI Defend Short Term Strategic State:
To re-evaluate
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END
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Any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.

AI States

EDIT: I will revise this post to be less technical as it is a copy of what I posted to answer a Players question on how does an AI get from Explore State to the Infrastructure State. As soon as time permits, I will clean this up to include all the AI states in more detail

[ October 11, 2003, 14:04: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Niltrias]

Thanks! I've been wondering about those AI states since SEIV (non gold). this will definitly help my AI modding.
Niltrias

[Lighthorse]

I’m enjoying AIC Version 3.02. Started game with organic technology, increase maintenance and research technology level, and reduce repair and ground fighting capacities. Set the game for large cluster, both high levels for number of AI players and difficultly with no bonuses. Started with finite resources and simultaneous movement. No tactical movement allow, only could colonized our planet type (i.e. rock or ice or gas).
Started in the southeast corner of the cluster galaxy. Had on-going wars with two other AI races from turns fifteen to sixty. Formed a partnership with one AI race, later broke the treaty and attacked me on turn eighty or so. By turn hundred and ten, eliminated three AI races by ground assaults on they home planets, and holding my own against two of the major races.
The AI does fairly well at mining and defending warp holes and planets, use of fighters and other technologies. The largest AI fleet I witnessed so far has been eleven ships. If they lose a ship to my minefield, the next ship they send in is a minesweeper. The AI has a problem getting by a warp hole defended by fighters. One race would keep on sending ships armed with capital missiles with only a single point defense weapon on board to try to force open the warp hole. Only fought one AI race with fighters so far, that engagement I lost all my thirty fighters to his forty fighters. Had wrong orders for the fighter is why I lost that engagement. All my frontier planets have mines, fighters and weapons platforms for defense, before I start building any facilities. AI races will tried to destroyed my out laying planets and re-colonize themselves.
I never played a SE4 game with finite resources before. Interesting challenged collecting allow resources, finding enough room/planets to store your extra resources, building up your economic and always keep on expanding outwards. It’s forces you to expand quickly at first and defend your frontiers.
I have been wondering if there enough resources left, to finish this game. If all the other AI races had already colonize all the other planets, with finite resources when will the galaxy run out of resources? I’m had started construction of asteroid mining ships for both asteroids and ice / gas planets, but it only a stop gap measure.

Lighthorse

[JLS]

Thanks Lighthorse, I would like to here more about your AIC Finite game at the AI Campaign thread. I like your settings for the Finite game, you may however tie your hands a little in Finite Play; with (only could colonized our planet type) and may make those Asteroids Fields one of the most valued of terrains to defend or too conquer. With this said, the AI as a result of se4 logic does NOT Asteroid or vacant planet Robo Mine and this will be a crippling AI disadvantage
Now if you want a chalange in a (only could colonized our planet type), you may take Ice or Gas against only the AI Players of Rock Type.

NOTE: Other then possibly Gas or Ice type AI to an extent; an increased AI Bonus should assist the AI for most se4 and MODS with (only could colonized our planet type). I will look for additional options as well for the AI within AIC with this style of play, thanks for the heads up, Lighthorse
- - -

Most of the AI Players with AIC; will have at least one (Seeker) Ship Class in there arsenal to keep the Human Players honest from jump; as to maintain at least some point defense capabilities on there ships, but worry not they will fleet with Ships that specialize in direct fire beam and CVs soon enough.

You may in many games see AI Player fleets and Ships in a sector or sectors that may exceed one to two Hundred in total Ship Numbers.
However, since the AI thru the PPI (please refer to reference) of the Vehicles Construction file is based on total Planets to support the AI Fleets. Then with (only could colonized our planet type or Breathable Atmospheres only) will naturally keep the total Colonized Planets down, hense having the effect of reduceing overall total SHIP counts. Resulting in most cases the AI with some MODS may have an inability to produce large amounts of ships. That ROCK type AI may out perform all other AI types (gas or Ice) if war was to start for AI versus AI. Also to say that even ROCK type AI Players may not perform well against the crafty Human Player that exclusively has the ability to Robo-mine the vacant unobtainable Planet types from (only could colonized our planet type) and Asteroids
- - -

Yes Lighthorse, with AI Campaigns Urban Centers; Cities, Large Metropolises thru World Culture Centers you will always have Base Economics that are not effected by Planet Values and this will represent Commerce. In addition, Systems with two or more Stars are the equivalent, of some of the best beachs on the Med or the beauty of the Caribbean and this will boost your economy greatly; when large Cities spring up in those Systems But this thread should not be about AIC, and is for AI Modding and options discussion in general

However, do not overlook the value of Planet Utilizations Facilities to bolster your Planets resource potential and values; when playing Finite in any MOD or se4

= = = = = = = =
REFERENCE for PPI

Rules:
1. The game picks a selection based on the AI State. There cannot be duplicate
AI states.
2. Item will be placed at whichever spaceyard is available and can get it done the fastest.
> 3. First item in the queue is selected, and evaluated. We construct if:
{Please veiw code}

code:

---

a. There are less than X planets per each item, (if there are 13 planets and we already

        have 4 ships of this design type, and the Planet Per Item value = 3, 

        then we buy another one). If PPI < (Num Planets / Num Ships of Type), construct. 

  

---

4. If the Build at Least value is greater than 0, we check if the Planet Per Item condition
is still true. If it is, then we purchase another one, if not, we move to the next
queue item. If we do purchase another one, we continue in this loop until the
condition is false, or we have purchased the number in Build At Least.
5. When the Last item is reached, it restarts at the beginning.

- - -

Entry X Planet Per Item:
Number of planets per each item in 10ths.
(20 = 2.0: We want 1 item for every 2 planets we have.)

Entry X Must Have At Least:
Must have this many of this type in existance, or being built.
If not, then build more.
This comes before Planet Per Item. {and assumes the AI may afford this minimum count, so the MHAL numbers that are placed here must be resonable for the AI Players: Defense or Yard Bases and the Ship Minimums. The AI designer must consider the future late game upgrade costs and maintainence is affordable because MHAL is not based on probable and/or designed pre-planed Mining Colonies. Where as PPI will consider probable pre-designed Mining Colonies and Etc.}

[ October 11, 2003, 18:26: Message edited by: JLS ]