Love and Hate

primitive · #1 November 23rd, 2003, 01:48 PM

Thanks for the tip, but I'm afraid my copy of Civ3 hit the garbage can a long time ago. I won't support a company that can release such a POS by purchasing it again

Taera · #2 November 23rd, 2003, 06:40 PM

Hello RobO, and welcome to the forums - i'd just like to comment on the UI - yes, there is a horrible amount of mousework. BUT! Almost everything has a hotkey attached to it. If you learn some of those, the game will go considerably faster, and you wont use the mouse as much. And just a tip, dont compare it to SEIII - its a whole different game.

edit: Re: ministers - the ministers follow text files that guide them through building stuff. THey dont scrap facilities for newer ones, no.
If you realy like working with the ministers, forget the standard ones - find a race you like (or in full game, choose a custom? your own? race) and edit their ai construction files - so they will work the way you wanted them to.

[ November 23, 2003, 16:42: Message edited by: Taera ]

PvK · #3 November 24th, 2003, 07:23 AM

SE4 Gold is definitely worth it. I miss the good parts of SE3 too, but SE4 Gold has plenty of stuff that make it worthwhile, especially if you play against a modded AI, and/or play with humans.

As for other good turn-based conquest games - see Dominions II!

PvK

gregebowman · #4 November 24th, 2003, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primitive:
Thanks for the tip, but I'm afraid my copy of Civ3 hit the garbage can a long time ago. I won't support a company that can release such a POS by purchasing it again

Besides SEIV Gold, I can't think of another game that has given me so much pleasure and loss of sleep than Civ3. I can't understand why you two are against it, it's a great game. I have both expansion discs, and although they have added some elements to the game, I could play the original game forever. But like with SEIVG, I just can't find the time to play these games as much as I'd like to.

Fyron · #5 November 24th, 2003, 05:00 PM

Play Civ 2 (plus expansions, esp. ToT) and you will understand why Civ 3 is a POS. It is a major step backwards in the genre.

[ November 24, 2003, 15:01: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

gregebowman · #6 November 24th, 2003, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Play Civ 2 (plus expansions, esp. ToT) and you will understand why Civ 3 is a POS. It is a major step backwards in the genre.

I have Civ 2 and a couple of expansion discs, Test of Time and Call to Power (couldn't play CTP2 at the time). They're all basically the same to me. Now they're may be differences in gameplay (I think CTP is the one where you could create space stations and underwater colonies), it's still the same basic game. Create a civilization, and try to keep it alive and growing for the next 6,000 years. I don't understand why some say CIV3 is a POS. As a matter of fact, I think I'll play a game tonight. This post has whetted my appetite again.

Fyron · #7 November 24th, 2003, 05:51 PM

CTP is NOT an expansion, it is a game made by a different company.

Civ 3 is a POS for many, many reasons. Far too many to list in completeness. Here are some: First off, they specifically cut BASIC features from Civ 2 (multiplayer, organization of data files, moddability, victory points/conditions, etc.) so that they could release 2 expansions "featuring" them. The fact that these features came about in Civ 2 expansions is irrelevant because they were new features at the time. It is completely inexcusable to NOT have these in the original Civ 3. The "expansions" for Civ 3 are worth about 5 dollars in new features (and that is being generous). Next, you have the fact that modding Civ 3 for years took hacking of the game files in order to work. The Scenario Editor was a complete POS. Now it is just a POS. It took many patches to get it to even be useable to mod the game! Next, they removed the text files for storing data!!! This was a HORRIBLE move. I think we can all agree that text files are the way to go for moddability. Furthermore, they nerfed espionage/sabotage. It is damned near impossible to do it more than a few times in Civ 3 unless you are so much larger and more powerful than the other empires that you can afford it. But by that time, it will not make a difference! Additionally, the AI cheats much more horrendously (especially in the diplomacy department) than in CIv 2. The AI empires regularly trade their technologies for ludicrously cheap amounts. Next, they removed the EVENTS system! Especially in ToT, it had so much potential for creating cool mods and scenarios! Furthermore, you have the VERY common experience of ridiculous combat results like a tank being defeated by PIKEMEN! (who are ONLY armed with pikes, maybe some swords; any explanations of "they have mines and such" are ludicrous apologetic justification for garbage game mechanics) At least you don't have the classic Civ situation of a warrior defeating a battleship!

Additionally, they removed EVERYTHING good added in the ToT expansion. There were dozens of cool new abilities for units you could use. All are gone. The only thing they kept was the ability to assign settler abilities to units individually instead of all at once.

I would continue, but I must get to class now. Expect more in the near future!