Status of systems not presently seen

Fyron · #1 December 1st, 2003, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Asmala:

quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The reason this was not done is because it would increase the size of some parts of savegame files (some large parts) by 20 fold...

It cannot increase savegame files significantly. Required information is only a few bytes per object. Imagine how many objects you can squeeze, say, to 20 kb?

Yes it can... it would have to store the same data that is present for each system in the galaxy, but for every single turn. Or, it would just store the latest Version of what each empire has seen for each system, which would require up to 20 times as much space for all of that information. It takes more than a few bytes to store all of the information for a system, especially when those systems start getting lots of ships and units and such in them.

Karibu · #2 December 1st, 2003, 07:24 AM

I see the problem now. However, it could be an option to choose when game starts. Like random events.

Asmala · #3 December 1st, 2003, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

quote:
Originally posted by Asmala:

quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The reason this was not done is because it would increase the size of some parts of savegame files (some large parts) by 20 fold...

It cannot increase savegame files significantly. Required information is only a few bytes per object. Imagine how many objects you can squeeze, say, to 20 kb?
Yes it can... it would have to store the same data that is present for each system in the galaxy, but for every single turn. Or, it would just store the latest Version of what each empire has seen for each system, which would require up to 20 times as much space for all of that information. It takes more than a few bytes to store all of the information for a system, especially when those systems start getting lots of ships and units and such in them.

It depends what you consider a few bytes. In a big game a few bytes per player is 10-20 kb, I think. And it's quite a lot of information you can put to that.

Perhaps some numbers would help you. Each planet requires 7 bytes and each ship/unit 2 bytes (ship's name not included, it would require too much space). 1000 planets and 5000 ships are quite a lot, isn't it. And it's only 17 kb per player.

Fyron · #4 December 2nd, 2003, 12:14 AM

And just were did you get those numbers? A hat, I presume. You have no idea how MM implemented those objects (and neither do I)

Ship names must certainly be included, as they can be seen. And all of the data you can see for ships, including damage they have if appropriate. It is a bit more than you would imagine...

17 KB per player... you also have to factor in the fact that every empire has to have data stored for whether all those ships/planets can be seen. And then you have to store 21 different Versions of what is in every single system (and then more if neutral races get created mid-game through intel or events). 1 for the actual data, and one for the Last thing every race saw for that system. It gets much larger than just that 17 KB. Sure, you can have optimizations and have an empty byte storing a bool for unexplored systems. But as soon as they become explored, you have to start adding data whenever stuff is seen.

[ December 01, 2003, 22:14: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Kamog · #5 December 2nd, 2003, 07:55 AM

17 kilobytes per player doesn't sound so bad. I wouldn't mind having save game files bigger by 17 x (# of players) kB to get this feature.

Fyron · #6 December 2nd, 2003, 08:57 AM

17 KB is likely a very small estimate, much smaller than the data necessary would take up...

minipol · #7 December 2nd, 2003, 09:35 AM

I would also like that feature. Like it's implemented now, scouts are not very usefull for
reconnaisance if you don't take notes.
And like Karibu said, you can make it an option at the start of a game to include this or not. That way, everybody gets what he wants. This is one of those things that i would really like in SE5.