OT- LOTR fan discussion thread - SPOILER WARNING

[narf poit chez BOOM]

The other thing the traditionalist in me would liek to have seen was the army of the dead being used to wipe out the corsairs of umbar, the ships being loaded with the armies of Southern Gondor (as per the book), and Aragorn leading these to the Pelennor, so that it was a victory of men.

someone else said the mountain armies wheren't undead; i can't remember.

(NOTE: I would wait to buy the special 3 set DVD edition that will have an additional few hours of material for the first two movies.)

so, when they release the extended Versions as a complete set, they'll be even longer? when'll they be out, though?

[Growltigger]

Narf, there were no mountain armies in the LOTR. I suppose the nearest thing to it would be the dwarfs of the Lonely Mountain. You dont hear much about them (other than Gloin at Elrond's Council and Balin's tomb in Moria) other than a mention that Sauron sent an army of Easterlings to attack Esgaroth, Dale and the Lonely Mountain and that King Brand of Dale (son of Bain son of Bard the bowman who killed Smaug) and Dain Ironfoot died fighting them.

The Dead lived under the White Mountains and like the movie, owed Aragorn an oath of fealty. He used them to kill the Corsairs of Umbar. They were not undead, but were ghosts (obviously with the power to kill people)

In the book, Minas Tirith was undermanned because the rest of Gondor could only send 3000-4000 men to help, and were keeping most of their forces back to combat the Corsairs. Once these were eliminated, Aragorn could marshall 30,000 odd Gondorean solidiers, stick them in the boats and sale these up to the Pelennor as late reinforcements, and it was these that really knackered up Mordor's troops, as they were getting on top of the men of the city and the rohirrim

[ January 07, 2004, 10:31: Message edited by: Growltigger ]

[dogscoff]

Barrow downs...

Yeah, they should have kept that.

Tom Bombadil

Nope, glad to see the back of him.

Elves turning up at Helms Deep!!

I thought this was in the books. Guess I have to re read.

but it seems like they're "together" at Aragorn's crowning ceremony, but no explanation is ever given in the movie.

I reckon the enhanced extended DVD might go into a little more detail here.

Irish music being played in Hobbiton, when they were English (OK OK minor gripe I know)

They're not Irish or English, they're Shirish.

used to wipe out the corsairs of umbar, the ships being loaded with the armies of Southern Gondor (as per the book), and Aragorn leading these to the Pelenno

Again, wait for the DVD. It's bound to be in there, IMHO.

(NOTE: I would wait to buy the special 3 set DVD edition that will have an additional few hours of material for the first two movies.)
...
so, when they release the extended Versions as a complete set, they'll be even longer? when'll they be out, though?

Oh if that is true then it is the biggest rip off ever. It's bad enough that they release the cinema-Version DVD in september for all those poor saps too impatient to wait until the extended one in december. To make us buy the same damn films all over again on the release of the third film is just criminal.

Elrond I think was unfairly treated. He never had the "Elves only" mentality in the book

Yeah, that seems like a fair comment. I'm also not entirely happy about the way Saruman became a slave of Sauron rather than a comeptitor for the ring's power.

[Growltigger]

Scoffo, good to see you are still alive, I thought Mrs Scoffo may have Banned you from life or something!

In response:

1 be difficult to have the Barrow Downs, without having Tom Bombadil, as he is the one who rescues the hobbits from the Barrow Wight;

2 I think Brian Blessed was built to be Tom Bombadil;

3 No elves at Helms Deep save Legolas. Just a couple of thousand Rohirrim (not 300!!) and a dwarf!

4 the extended DVD will have a lot to cover, not least Faramir and Eowyn's romance

5 Shirish?!! LOL ROFLMAO - brilliant, I like that

6 Given that the Dead save the day on the Pelennor, they may show them slaughtering the COrsairs in the extended DVD, but they wont change the ships from being loaded up with Gondorean soldiers, rather than the dead - bummer that

7 the delay on the extended DVD is a bit of a rip off, but if it helps then finance the Hobbit movie, I dont mind it

8 glad you agree with Elrond, as for Saruman, that is a tricksy one my precious - in the book, he started off as using the palantir to gain knowledge from sauron, and to try and fool sauron by saying he was his servant, when he wanted power for himself, but then he despaired and really did become sauron's servant - too much smoke and mirrors to try and show in the movie I think

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Narf, there were no mountain armies in the LOTR.

the ghosts where in the mountains, weren't they?

[General Woundwort]

Originally posted by Growltigger:
I wondered what the other Tolkienistas on the forum felt to be their biggest gripes, comments and/or criticisms with the movies!!

Mine (in no particular order of importance), are as follows:

1 missing out Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Downs in Fellowship;

Actually Old Bombadillo is my least favorite character in the trilogy, so no great loss for me.

2 Irish music being played in Hobbiton, when they were English (OK OK minor gripe I know)

At least the Irish have music, unlike the English (what was PJ supposed to do, put Hobbiton to the tune of "Eleanor Rigby"? )

3 Elves turning up at Helms Deep!!

No big deal - they all died anyways...

4 Completely underplaying Faramir, he is one of the most noble and heroic characters in the book, and that suicide charge in ROTK was bloody silly;

OK, here I'll agree with you, at least as far as Faramir's treatment in TTT goes (the extended edition repaired the damage somewhat), but the suicide charge (other than giving Minas Tirith cavalry, which they really didn't have in the books) is pretty faithful to the spirit of the Faramir/Denethor relationship (such as it was).

Just don't get me started on the Ents...

[Gryphin]

Orriginaly Posted by Growltigger
Agree with you about the witch king. I just loved the lines "Feast on his Flesh" soon followed by "No man may kill me, I am not a man, I am a woman" - whop!! marvellous.

Wow, we agree on something. wierd.
That was my favorite secen in the book and the movie though in both cases the use of "no man of woamn born" ploy still gets me.