Your SEV Game Design

[Baron Munchausen]

In UI, less is more.

The 'main screen' of SE V should be the galaxy map. The commands can be on a movable button-bar just like you see in MS word. Want it on top? Grab & push it to the top. Want it on the bottom? Push it there. Want it to float? That's fine too. No stupid 'frames' to draw, no mucking around necessary to adjust for the screen size. Everything you need to do is accessed by clicking on a system or clicking on a button on the bar that is placed where you want it.

Systems should be hexagon-based rather than squares. This is easy enough to do once you give up on forcing the system window into a defined square in a rigidly divided UI screen. Click on a system and pop-up a hexagonal system map. Do whatever you want to do in that system. Click a 'close' button to make it go away and return to the galaxy map. The 'radius' should be much larger than the current system size. At least twice. This quite is doable when the system map can fill the screen.

Then 'vision' in a system should be range based instead of absolute as it is now and you can finally have exploration and a real need for 'patrols' instead of each system being a little room that you can guard from one sentry-post.

The Research and Intel systems need to be drastically revised. Something like the SE III system would be better, with the ability to adjust how much of your research or intel resources to devote to each field or enemy.

The AI must have multi-dimensional decision making! This 'anger level' thing is so crude it's laughable. We need an AI smart enough to try to get a treaty even if it hates you when it realizes it can't defeat you. It would just choose a different sort of treaty, a 'non-aggression pact' instead of a trade treaty or alliance. And we need it to be smart enough to honor its treaties and aid its allies when asked, as well as ask for and deliver diplomatic favors. The treaty system should be broken down into individual options, not the current 'hierarchy'. Why wouldn't there be situations where I'd want to share intelligence with some ally but not give them access to my resupply depots?

Population AI needs to be smarter, too. Populations need 'loyalty' as well as a general 'morale' level. A 'culture' rating similar to the Civ 3 concept wouldn't hurt, although drawing borders would be tough in a space game. Just giving each colonized planet a 'sphere of influence' would probably good enough. Planets need to have much more complex environments defined by gravity, temperature ranges, and radiation levels along with atmosphere, and populations need to migrate more-or-less like they do in MOO 3 (the one really interesting and well done feature on that disaster) so you don't have to move them manually. Culture level could be an additional draw besides environment factors, and have an effect on assimilation (loyalty level) of non-native populations.

I could write volumes about what technologies it ought to include and what racial characteristics, etc... these are 'bells and whistles' that can be altered once the game is mostly done. I like most of the current technologies and racial traits. I'd just add a few. Like area effect weapons (which would be really cool in 3D! ), some way to give 'special powers' to ship hulls without having to add a component (a 'mount' for hulls is the way to say it, I guess) and options to use any of 'warp points' (natural), 'warp gates' (artificial), or 'hyperspace' interstellar travel instead of only the one model at present.

[ January 09, 2004, 01:03: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Fyron]

Systems should be hexagon-based rather than squares. This is easy enough to do once you give up on forcing the system window into a defined square in a rigidly divided UI screen.

Sadly, MM has stated that hex maps will not be done because a lot of code that is planned to be reused from SE4 is based directly on the maps being divided into squares.

[Baron Munchausen]

That's not what he said to us in the SE IV Beta forum where we discussed some alternatives. I could go look it up but I don't think I'm supposed to post stuff from the Beta forums out here. Don't be too certain that hex 'cannot' happen.

[Fyron]

It is what he said in the IRC chats a few months back when I asked him that question directly... good to see that he might be changing his mind.

[mac5732]

This is not your wish list for SEV, This is how YOU WOULD DESIGN THE GAME if you had the opportunity.

just some ideas Mac

[mac5732]

I would keep the current races that are in the game and add probably 4-6 others including a nomad or pirate race which could be played by the AI as well as a human player.

Increase the types of maps and include a random factor of a 2nd hidden, (smaller) universe which you would find hidden somewhere within the map. This univers would be smaller then the original (Due to space limitations) but would include say up to 50 planets & moons, maybe have 2 or 3 hidden entrances and exits that have to be found

In corporate a number of ideas from the various current mods like various weapon mounts, I also like the idea of keeping anti ftr and anti seeker weapons seperate so one does not shoot at both

add new additional types of ships, like corvette, super DN, monitor etc, just like in some of the mods

Would put in a better ground combat system, possibly based on something similiar like that of the old Star General Game (simple but fun) you could chose ground combat say anywhere from 5-10 ground combat rounds per 1 space turn. This would be actual combat between the differnt types of units, you could have infantry, aritllery, planes, tanks, etc.

Capability of adding a monster race or two if one wanted to

Making the AI more affective and smarter (I know this is the hardest part ) but some of the mods out there for seiv are pretty good with some of the races

add more types of ftrs & seekers, give some races some type of bonus for their ftrs or seekers as this could be a specialty. Maybe make them harder to hit, faster, more accurate, maybe start out with a higher experience level or something on that level


just some ideas Mac

[Phoenix-D]

"he 'main screen' of SE V should be the galaxy map. The commands can be on a movable button-bar just like you see in MS word. Want it on top? Grab & push it to the top. Want it on the bottom? Push it there. Want it to float? That's fine too. No stupid 'frames' to draw, no mucking around necessary to adjust for the screen size. Everything you need to do is accessed by clicking on a system or clicking on a button on the bar that is placed where you want it."

Good ideas so far. An adjustable interface is definitely a good thing if done well. I don't like the galaxy map being the main display, though..see below.

"Systems should be hexagon-based rather than squares. This is easy enough to do once you give up on forcing the system window into a defined square in a rigidly divided UI screen. Click on a system and pop-up a hexagonal system map. Do whatever you want to do in that system. Click a 'close' button to make it go away and return to the galaxy map. The 'radius' should be much larger than the current system size. At least twice. This quite is doable when the system map can fill the screen."

Congradulations, you just made a system that takes twice as much clicking as the current one. To what advantage? All I can see is allowing for a slightly larger galaxy map without scrolling. I'd prefer keeping the system map the main map, perhaps like SE3's system with it in a resizable section of the screen. The current system for this is IMO intuitive and works quite well.

"Then 'vision' in a system should be range based instead of absolute as it is now and you can finally have exploration and a real need for 'patrols' instead of each system being a little room that you can guard from one sentry-post."

Should be based on your sensor technology, and maybe on what the enemy has on their ships.

"The Research and Intel systems need to be drastically revised. Something like the SE III system would be better, with the ability to adjust how much of your research or intel resources to devote to each field or enemy."

Probably. Micromanging intel projects could stand to go, or not. I'm ambivalent on that one.

"The AI must have multi-dimensional decision making! This 'anger level' thing is so crude it's laughable. We need an AI smart enough to try to get a treaty even if it hates you when it realizes it can't defeat you. It would just choose a different sort of treaty, a 'non-aggression pact' instead of a trade treaty or alliance. And we need it to be smart enough to honor its treaties and aid its allies when asked, as well as ask for and deliver diplomatic favors. The treaty system should be broken down into individual options, not the current 'hierarchy'. Why wouldn't there be situations where I'd want to share intelligence with some ally but not give them access to my resupply depots?"

I like the indivudual options, but you're asking a -lot- of the AI here. As sad as it is, SE4's AI compares well against many in the genere. The game is too open and too flexible for any AI to adapt well. Not that it doesn't need to be better; I just don't have much hope for it.

"Population AI needs to be smarter, too. Populations need 'loyalty' as well as a general 'morale' level. A 'culture' rating similar to the Civ 3 concept wouldn't hurt, although drawing borders would be tough in a space game. Just giving each colonized planet a 'sphere of influence' would probably good enough. Planets need to have much more complex environments defined by gravity, temperature ranges, and radiation levels along with atmosphere, and populations need to migrate more-or-less like they do in MOO 3 (the one really interesting and well done feature on that disaster) so you don't have to move them manually. Culture level could be an additional draw besides environment factors, and have an effect on assimilation (loyalty level) of non-native populations."

This is more feasible, though I'm not sure I like auto-migration or more complex enviroments. Though, the user doesn't need to see all this- just use the Conditions display for it. All the conditions of a planet could be put together for an averge value, on a per-race basis. Removes some of the micromanagement while still allowing for details.

At the very least, the possibility of auto migration should be adjustable during empire designs. Some empires might allow it, but the more controlling ones (Starfire's Bugs..any top-down government system..etc) wouldn't.