OT: Election 2004

[dogscoff]

We went to liberate it from an terrible dictator.

Did 'we'? I was told it was to capture Osama Bin Laden... for a while. Then when it became clear no one was believing that lie I was told it was to get rid of the WMDs... for a while.Then when it became clear no one was believing that lie either I was finally told it was to get rid of Saddam.

This was a selfish, brutish and destructive war that has had many, many bad consequences because of the way it was fought. Getting rid of Saddam was just a happy side effect. A war to depose Saddam as its primary objective would have been waged differently, and would have had different results for the Iraqi ppl, and would have had my support.

You cannot say the world is not a better place because of what has been done in Iraq.

I just did :-)

There is no proof that anything has happened with Halliburton

Well its links with the current US govenrment is matter of record, in terms of ex-employees, campaign contirbutions etc. On the other side, you have the fact that the contracts to rebuild Iraq were given to Halliburton (and a number of other, similarly aligned companies) after a closed bidding process.

I heard on the news today that unemplyment in Iraq is so bad that kidnapping is now one of the biggest industries. Why not give some of those rebuilding contracts to Iraqi firms? The did an impressive job of rebuilding after the first war, and that was with international sanctions in place.

[Combat Wombat]

Firstly I will defend the listeners of Art Bells show. Most listeners aren't crazy alien seeing nut jobs.

I agree with the fact that there have been a few people like James Watt and I think that opinion was misplaced and crazy, but that doesn't violate the seperation of church and state, a goverment offical can base his decisions on what he feels is morally right or wrong, now how long that offical stays in his current posistion after a comment like that is another story, but this in no way constitutes the goverment endorsing a specfic religion.

This is my opinon on what Watt said: if Jesus was coming I would want to clean the place up. You clean up your house when a guest comes over why wouldnt you do the same for Jesus?

[EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro]

Or if your in a hurry you could use the Ark of the Covenant. All that super suck Nazi face melting power will do wonders for my place, just don't look!

[Perrin]

Originally posted by primitive:
I would like to ask a question to among others; Perrin and the Wombat.

- Do you (still) believe that there was a link between Al Qaeda and Saddam and that by invading Iraq, the US could therefore hurt Al Qaeda in some way ?

If so, your Posts make perfect sense to me and I would be happy to discuss the facts. If not, please explain to me how the invation could be seen as a part of the "war on terrorism". I'm at a loss here

Yes I do believe that there is a link however I do not draw the line with Al Qaeda. I believe that there is a link between Saddam and Terror world wide.

We already know that Saddam was paying the families of Suicide bombers in Israel. Therefore if he supports those terrorist then why would he not support others? There were terrorist training camps in Iraq. These are places that Al Qaeda could train. Why would Saddam who hates the US not support others who were fighting against us? Even if it was only with money and weapons.

Did you know that members of the IRA have trained in camps in the Middle East? I do not see terrorist Groups as individual Groups anymore. I see them all as a plague upon all of Humanity.

And although there has been no direct link found yet between Saddam and Al Qaeda the fact that he refused to comply with the UN resolutions makes me very suspicious.

I will now ask the question that others who are on the other side have asked? Where are the WMD's?! The world knows that he had them. That is why the UN resolutions existed. He agreed to destroy them. But to this day know one know what has happened to them. If it was me and I was complying with the agreement to destroy something I would open my doors and invite all to see that I was getting rid of them. (Bonfire party at my place) If Saddam had done that he would still be in power today.

[dogscoff]

There were terrorist training camps in Iraq

IIRC these were in the Kurdish- controlled part of Iraq...

[Atrocities]

I think it is safe to say that the Iraq situation could be debated until the end of time. However what is done is done. Time to move forward and think about the future.

This war has both hurt and helped both canadates and I think it will be a minor point in the up coming election.

The big issues are going to be over the economy, and jobs not Iraq so much as in the past.

[Randallw]

I personally have become disillusioned with the world recently. I used to think it was good versus evil. But lately I come to realise its realy everyone for themselves. We have countries going to war because of information which afterwards turn out to be false, or at least so far. We have the survivors of the holocaust , or Shoah, or endlosung, saying "never again" to their murder and persecution and crushing all opposition or assasinating enemy leaders. I'm not against this stuff, we need to stop those who threaten our dominant culture or the rights of the Jewish people to their homeland. It does show that things aren't black and white though. I just think its loyalty to your culture and the strongest will be the victor.