SEIV Only A Nitch Game

[David E. Gervais]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
MOO3 was just horrible.
GalCiv is a great game but not as fun as SEIV and IT has far more market share than SEIV.

It's simple AT, Market share is all about 'Visibility' as in seen and heard and not about finding something through obscure net searches or the occasional word-of-mouth.

Walk into any computer store, chances are you'll see a copy of Moo3 and GalCiv. Pick up a magazine and there is a good chace you'll see an ad for one of these. do a net search for '4X Games' and you will find about a dozen references to moo3/GalCiv for every 1 se4. and if you include other 4x results of the search, it's about a 20-25 to 1 ratio. (Something strange, of the links I found to se4, none were to MM's site and most were to 3rd party fan sites and a few to Shrapnel.)

I keep hearing,.. "Advertizing is expensive", "Retail doesn't pay enough" But these statements are skewered when compared to Net-only sales and marketing.

What is better,. Selling 15,000 copies and making $10-$15 profit per game or selling 25, 50, or 100 thousand copies at $5 profit per game? (what if the 'Less-profit' theory of retail is hogwash, a developer can easilly make the same $10-$15 per game profit as Online sales.)

My problem with the whole Net vs Retail sales thing is that I cannot for the life of me see why the two need to be mutually exclusive. Most Publishers who have Games in the retail outlets also have the ability to order their products Online.

Even if Shrapnel took just one of their games an made it available through retial, they would see a greater influx of traffic at their site. Heck they could even insert ads in their 'retail-game' and promote their 'Other' games through the sales of one. From what I heard in Tim's post, it would cost about the same to launch a game through retail as it would to place an ad in a gamming magazine. Anyone want to bet which $15,000 investment would gain the widest exposure?

One more thing, I really HATE people that think Making-less is the same as loosing. It is so not true. Sure $5 proffit is less than say $15 profit, but that's not 'Loosing money' It's just making less, but wait, if just one game is a 'Hit' in the retail market (100,000+ copies sold) then would 'they' still say they are loosing money?


anyway, nuf said. Grrrrr

[ March 24, 2004, 11:03: Message edited by: David E. Gervais ]

[Unknown_Enemy]

ALL THAT ARE LIE !!!
MOO3 WAS A GREAT GAME !

err...I mean it was a great PBW game dedicated to refugees from *****BEEEPP****.

[Captain Kwok]

Hey, if we can continue to support Aaron financially to make great games, then I have no problem with being part of a niche group without all the craziness associated with more popular games.

[Ragnarok-X]

Keep in mind this game was not buyable in a normal shop like MoO 3 und GalCiv was. In addition this game is going warez since the release, i remember it was downloaded thousands of times through networks like sharereactor. And it didnt even had ONE copy protection.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Why is SEIV such a nitch game after four years of success?

It's a niche game because turn-based strategy titles are a niche market. There just aren't enough people out there right now that are willing to play this kind of game. Think about how much time you have to invest to just learn the rules for SE4.

Now, being in a niche market doesn't mean the game is bad (it's in my top ten!), but it does mean you have a limited audience, and a very tight budget. MOO3 tried (albeit unsuccessfully) to make a game that appealed to the less hard-core by reducing the micromanagement you normally find in a 4x game.

It may well be impossible at this point in time to make a good 4x game that has mass-market appeal. Which is why I hope SE5 is more of an evolution of SE4, rather than a drastic change to the formula...

[Tribble]

Originally posted by spoon:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Why is SEIV such a nitch game after four years of success?

It's a niche game because turn-based strategy titles are a niche market. There just aren't enough people out there right now that are willing to play this kind of game. Think about how much time you have to invest to just learn the rules for SE4.

Now, being in a niche market doesn't mean the game is bad (it's in my top ten!), but it does mean you have a limited audience, and a very tight budget. MOO3 tried (albeit unsuccessfully) to make a game that appealed to the less hard-core by reducing the micromanagement you normally find in a 4x game.

It may well be impossible at this point in time to make a good 4x game that has mass-market appeal. Which is why I hope SE5 is more of an evolution of SE4, rather than a drastic change to the formula...

---

Indeed, I sincerely hope it doesn't go the real-time route...

Paul

[Atrocities]

I wonder if sending game shops an SEIV poster would work. Ask them to display it for a copy of the game.

Who knows maybe that would work. For every 10 copies sold through that store give the store a free copy of the game as an incentive.

When I was in the Firearms business there were many incentive programs like this out. Sell our product and we will give you discounts and even free merchandise. Of course you had to sell a lot of stuff and buy a lot to get the discounts, but at the end of the year it was well worth it.

(Mostly appearl, accessories, and such.)

I would love to walk into EB Software and see a SEIV poster by David Gervais hanging on the wall with a coupon to order Space Empires IV through Shrapnel with free shipping.

They use the coupon which tells which store the game was ordered through so the store gets credit.

After say 10 or even 20 coupons are used from the same store to buy SEIV, send the store a free game to sell. Offer them a 10% discount on the purchase of 10 or more games from Shrapnel.

Hell if you think about this it could work for all of shrapnels games.

Just a thought though. Remember it takes money to make money and Shrapnel can wright off all this as marketing on there taxes and gain a huge tax break.

But the bonus would be that the games become more visable.