Alien, I mean really Alien.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by PvK:

Aliens from another evolutionary history might think in extremely different ways.

PvK

I disagree with that. Both the evolutionary part and the different ways. Well, not that they may think differently, but the type of different. A gas being from the gas giant Gafefaf would percieve it's environment differently, it's environment would shape it's reactions and thought processes, but it would still need social behavior, or it would die out.

And it would need emotions, to give it reasons to do things. It would need thought processes, to process information. And it would need instincts, to tell it what to do when the others failed or wouldn't be fast enough.

And all the things you can think of that it might have can be done with a human brain.

But, what about trees? They have no brain. True, but they have counterparts for those things, which can be simulated by a human brain. Maybe not fully, but I addressed that in a previous post.

[ March 25, 2004, 09:22: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[dogscoff]

but I wouldn't call their thoughts "totally alien". They're very easy to relate to - not very far from human thoughts and emotions in many ways, even if there are differences

The only reason that their behaviour doesn't seem "totally alien" to us is that we are used to it. We understand (or think we do) the way animals think because we have studied them and/ or domesticated them and/or try to interpret their behaviour using our human behaviour as a template. If we landed on an alien planet and saw a bunch of creatures with the exact same behaviour, intelligence and level of communication as dolphins we would spend decades trying to communicate with them because we would think there was a chance they were sentient.

not very far from human thoughts and emotions

As I said, there are similarities but they will occur almost everywhere we find life. Any life form on any planet that needs to learn the value of running away will develop fear- or something very similar to fear. Parallel evolution.

Any life form that benefits from living ina society will evolve bonds with others within its society- friendship, love, comradeship, pack mentality- call it what you will.

U_E: Yeah, I miss xenology too, although I really didn't have time for it, and my KanesS story didn't make any damn sense at all. It was a great idea, and it spawned some really promising stories.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

so, Dogscoff, what your saying is that they may develop a fear reaction, but they won't be feeling fear? So, your thinking of neural and chemical reactions? I still say a human can replicate, same thing as simulate when your talking about the brain, any of those. Ok, maybe not the exact chemical interactions, but there results.

[ March 25, 2004, 11:16: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Randallw]

Originally posted by PvK:


Aliens from another evolutionary history might think in extremely different ways.

PvK

I may be getting OT, but I started this thread so I get to bring up new stuff.
Does anyone know of the dicovery where fossils from a billion years were found. Now we are one "form" in so far as we have a Skeletal system AND a backbone AND symetry (2 arms, 2 legs, 1 on each side). I am no expert so I will say in my example there are 5 forms of animal still living, we mammals and 4 others (such as worms, with no backbone or skeleton etc). Anyway in the example I mentioned there were 20 "forms" of animal found. Thats the 5 current ones, and 15 "types" that are extinct. basically 1 billion years ago there were 20 possible templates for the creatures that would occupy the earth but 15 got covered with a landslide and only the other 5 survived (I am simplifying this alot, and my numbers might be wrong, but I am trying to point out something). So what if instead of the 5 that survived, 5 others survived. The earth might be populated by animals with no backbone and 3 legs and a head with an extendable mouth.

[capnq]

The most alien aliens that spring to mind for me are the kif in C. J. Cherryh's Chanur stories. The main thing I remember about them is that the rare times they communicated, the "translation" was a two-dimensional matrix of words, rather than "normal" sentences.

[dogscoff]

Dogscoff, what your saying is that they may develop a fear reaction, but they won't be feeling fear?

Well, if it serves the same purpose as fear, and it provokes the same response as fear... why don't we just call it fear? There will undoubtedly be biological differences but the end result is the same. After all, how do i know that when *you* feel fear you feel the same thing as me? How do I know you don't see red as what I would call call blue?

It's like the Turing test for AI: You can't know for sure whether a machine is actually intelligent or just doing a really good impression of one that is, but when it gets to that stage there's very little point trying to tell the difference anyway.

[Puke]

No, I was never aware that there were 15 other Types. (a Type is above a Genus, right? or is that a Family? I cant remember much biology) But I would be very interested if you could post links to information.

It would be good for fictional race creation, if not edification for its own sake.

The most alien races i have read about are probably H.P. Lovecraft's Great Old Ones, unfathomable intelects that operate in more dimensions than we can understand. they are often misrepresented as evil, but im sure their motivations are perfectly sane to them, we just cant understand them.