Space Empires 101 - Galactic Council

[Thermodyne]

OOC: This is really getting out of hand. Alarik and I have been allied since the beginning of this game, and that was because of a common threat on a border we shared. Beyond that we have had very little contact. IIRC, we have been in a game or two, but not as close allies.

As to the war, that is old news. There were two targets and I went after the D-O. As part of a larger coalition I might add.

Now to upsetting the balance of the game, I would think that you would be happy. His empire was much stronger in his hands then it will be in mine. I am far form being one of the more skilled players in this game.

To the surrender of the D-O and who they chose to surrender to, I can not speak. I was not a party to any of the discussions. But I would add that they at least surrendered to someone that they were actually at war with. Unlike the surrender their partner made.

In closing the OOC part, I would like to remind everyone that this is just a game. We are supposed to be enjoying the challenges that it presents.

[Thermodyne]

IC: Thermolia finds itself in a state of great turmoil. With the recovery from the war just beginning to get under way, we find ourselves faced with the challenge of creating a coalition government to lead the merged peoples that now call the Expanse their home. We realize that the recent hostilities have left the galaxy with great amount of disorder. As we get a grasp of the holdings that now make up the Expanse, we fully intend to see that historic and Natural borders are restored. We call on all peace loving empires to cast aside the evil that is war, and work to establish a Lasting peace.

[AMF]

OOC:

Whoa dude!

What would have had me do? I thought, for game balance, historical, and role-playing reasons, it made the most sense. Sorry if you have heartburn over it. And, no, I don't know thermodyne.

ta ta,

Alarik

Originally posted by Wardad:
You talk like a snake in the grass Alarik.
You have bent my words out of shape.
You asked if this was unbalancing for the game.
I never made a demand, and included others in my suggestions.

I saved your butt and the Themolians butt from the Dei-O you both started. Three major battles were faught and won by my fleets against superior Dei-O numbers (yea, it surprised me too). Eysk fleet was also there helping, and Trooper's fleet had just arrived from a great distance.

Why should we not share the bounty?

Is Thermodyne a buddy from RL?

[AMF]

The RCC would like to apologize if it mistook Cyber declarations to mean that they made a demand. WE based this on Messages from them. (ie:"This gives me serious heartburn.
I rescued both of you from a war Thermolia started. I recieved nothing for it. You recieved all of Dei-Os territory. Give Thermolia your native systems. Give Cyber, Eysk, and Trooper the Dei-O systems. I will not tolerate Thermolia recieving such resources. Not after this message from them: Message from the Thermolian Expanse:
"We offer this gift with the hope that you will bend over and grab them ankles.")

So...our bad. WE apologize. WE DID jump to conclusions. However, we stand by our beleif that a request emerged where before there was not one. And the Cyber have said as much in seperate emails.

Now, to the issue at hand: it was NEVER our intention to unbalance the political or strategic situation at hand. The RCC always strove to be a voice for moderation and peace amongst a battle weary quadrant. The RCC government had perceived a need to retire, and viewed the merger with Thermolia as the best option to maintain the strategic and political balance as well as be true to cultural and historical events and trends. WE based this on arguments we have already made.

Clearly, there is some concern over this. (Clearly! )

WE are HIGHLY distressed that such concern would have reached such a fever pitch that paranormal concerns (ie: out-of-game OOC concerns) would have been voiced.

Certainly, we admit that we perhaps should have done things differently in order to avoid such troubles. Perhaps we should have put the issue of the retirement of the RCC government to a public discussion...we did not, for we didn't really feel that this would maintain the strategic and political balance that existed.

WE still feel that the fate of the RCC should be determined by the RCC...and that if we allow it to be carved up by various powers, then we, as the RCC government, would be remiss in our duties to our people.

Furthermore, we do not agree that the Cybers, and Citizen collective and others "...saved your butt and the Themolians butt from the Dei-O you both started." Indeed, we didn't start the war, the Dei-O and those other fellas did. True, we didn;t do so well, and thermolia got hurt bad, but that does not seem to logically justify the fate of the RCC citizens being left up to others.

Finally, we also realize that much of the concern may be derived from the differnet political attitudes of the RCC and Thermolians. The RCC has always prided itself and tried to attain the role of moderator and voice for peaceful resolution of conflicts as well as a steadfast ally. We cannot speak for the Thermolians, but, obviously, some do not feel that they would be the same voice of moderation. Some may even fear the concentration of power that the RCC merger with them might result in. There concerns are well noted by us.

AS of yet....we have NO answers to these problems. So we will think about them. For a bit. And we welcome public comment.

OOC: Ok, I am REALLY bummed that my attempt to cut down my invovlement in the 101 game has resulted in soem bad feelings and out-of-game concerns. This was not my intention, and I accept full blame - I clearly didn;t plan as well as I should have. I truly thought this would all be a non-issue. My first and foremost concern is to fix all ill feelings that are out-of-game. How can I do that? Should I stay in the game as RCC? What? Ideas? I have put the game on very temporay hold until I think through this without beer in me.

Thanks,

Alarik

ALSO: I just noticed that Thermodyne is listed as being from "DC Burbs USA." That's funny. I too am listed as living in DC I think, but I actually moved from there to Norfolk almost a year ago now. In any case, this is a non-issue. Don't know the fella. And, even if I did, I'd think he was probably wacko. I mean, who is gonna be named "thermodyne"? after all? But seriosuly folks, I don;t know anyone here that would allow RL relationships to stand in the way of their gameplay. I would not. I am not going to revisit this issue again, since if I do I'll probably get all "self righteous" and insulted and the result would only be escalatory. Besides, I've had a few beers right now and I'm looking forward to doing a few SEIV turns and relaxing with this cool game...

[trooper]

Alarikf,

You talk too much. Do what you think is best before leaving the game.

After all, it's just a game, and it's time for an alliance to win.

Too bad if this victory is helped by player's abandonments.

Trooper

[ July 15, 2004, 07:52: Message edited by: trooper ]

[AMF]

Originally posted by trooper:
Alarikf,

You talk too much.

That's been said before. You should see me when I get REALLY worked up about something.

I just hate to see a game 'fouled' or bad feelings engendered by my leaving, when I might've avoided this by leaving in a "better" manner. Not sure if that actually would have been possible, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Originally posted by trooper:
Alarikf,
Do what you think is best before leaving the game.

After all, it's just a game, and it's time for an alliance to win.

Yes, and that, ironically, makes it all the more important that I make it perfectly clear that there was
1) no harm no foul - either intended or taken - by anyone, hopefully
2) I meant no disruption by my leaving - in or out of game
3) I REALLY thought that it made perfect sense to do what I did (ie: cede RCC to Thermolia) given what had gone on in the game earlier and the strategic situation. Again, my misperception.

Originally posted by trooper:
Too bad if this victory is helped by player's abandonments.

Well, my take is not that it is an "abandonment" but a political development. Politics is affected by "events" in reality - it's like the sudden collapse of the USSR or the revolution in France: no one could have predicted it, but it happened and it's a fact of life. I find it fascinating to examine how states respond to "big changes" like that - "something big happens that you aren't ready for, how do you deal with it?" And SEIV, being, partly, a strategic "simulation," is one way of observing such reactions.

Nevermind. I'm "talking too much" again.

Alarik

[Joachim]

Originally posted by alarikf:
Furthermore, we do not agree that the Cybers, and Citizen collective and others "...saved your butt and the Themolians butt from the Dei-O you both started." Indeed, we didn't start the war, the Dei-O and those other fellas did. True, we didn;t do so well, and thermolia got hurt bad, but that does not seem to logically justify the fate of the RCC citizens being left up to others.

Well, as the long dead ghost of the Dei, I want to clarify a couple of things.
The Dei started the war with the RCC, the Termolians attacked the Dei and sent a message not dis-similar to the one mentioned, thats why we ceased attacks on the RCC and went all out on the Therms.
The Dei after exhausting diplomatic options were in no postion to survive - evil talisman (but thats a different whinge ). The only people that had been reasonable to the Dei during the negotiations were, paradoxically, the RCC. That is why we surrendered to them.