Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV

[Atrocities]

I think you should do some research on the subject of what CPS (Child Protective Services) has done to people. It is rather frightening. In 90% of the cases in Clark County Last year CPS removed children without cause. 10% of the removals were for cause but only 1% were for actual cause.

The agency makes money by:
1. Investigating any and all complaints wether they are a real issue or just someone making them up.
2. Taking the children out of their homes and placing them into foster care. 90% of the time without justifyable cause.
3. Force the parents to pay for parenting classes, take anger managment, and pay "child Support" to the state even if the removal of their child was in error.
4. Keep the family in the system and force the parents to pay for and submit to repeated home visits, inspections, and audits.

90% of the people who lost their children to the state CPS system Last year should not have according to the law.

Case in point, my neighbor was accused of beating his child when his boy crashed his quad and his dad took him to the ER. The doctors called CPS and a case worker came to the hospital and talked with the boy without ever notifying the parents. She told the boy that she "knew" that his father was abuse and that she was going to protect him. The boy had never been hit by his father, only yelled at occationaly and that was all of the justification that this case worker needed to yank Matt out of his home.

They charged the parents with child endagerment for letting him ride his quad without proper supervision, child abuse for yelling at him on occassion, and child neglect for leaving him at home during the summer without adult supervision. They also attepted to charge them with child abandonment but that was dropped. Matt is 15 years old now, and was 12 at the time this happened. He continously denied that he was ever abused or subjected to abuse but was ignored.

While in foster care he told us all that EVERY ONE of the children in his foster home regarless of their age were pulled from good homes without cause.

This was cooberated by a state senate investigation back in 1994, 95. At that time they were ordered to disconiue the "whole sale" methods of taking children out of carring homes over minor infractions. CPS, having no oversight committe, and answering to no state agency ignored this senate mandate and continued to do business as usual.

For Matt's parents, it cost them nearly 20 grand before they were able to get Matt back and they are still fighting and paying. Matt has also developed the mentality that he can get whatever he wants now simply by threatening to call CPS. His father is at wits end and is about to divorce his wife to get away from the BS.

And she has said that she wants to file with the state to release her son from her custody. I forget the term.

All of this because of CPS.

And for the record, he was being supervised, he was racing at PIR at the time of his accident. So again the state had no right to file charges, but did so any ways because of the CPS case worker who I might add is one evil sick B***H.

And this is the norm not the exception.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by alarikf:

quote:

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Originally posted by Atrocities:
And no offense, but many people do not agree with the liberal point of view on a great many topics. And for the record, I think we need liberal ideas and laws, but over the Last twelve years the liberal laws that have been enacted have only limited our freedoms and free choices. The liberals that force fed us these laws I think we can do without.

Like that liberal John Aschroft?

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LOL.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by alarikf:
Just a guess, but this was on Fox "news" right?

quote:

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Originally posted by Atrocities:
I was watching the news tonight and they mentioned that Kerry and Edwards are in favor of banning or limiting the production and or sale of violent video games.

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I would have to say yes even though they really are not part of FOX news. This news station is prodomently liberal democrat and loves Kerry. They reported the story as if it was a good thing and not a bad thing.

[AMF]

I see your point, and in this case it definitely sounds messed up.

I think we agree that the *implementation* of such laws, at a minimum, needs to be changed. Oversight, proportionality, and checks and balances need to be implemented.

However, I think, from what I've read, we might also agree that children need some form of protection from the occasional terrible abuse. Just as there are plenty of stories of families who get screwed under CPS, there are just as many if not more about kids who are so abused that they are killed, permanently injured/multilated, or psychologically screwed up beyond beleif. In fact, on a compleletly anecdotal level, I have met a number of kids who fit into those categories who would have been well served by a third party intervention early in their lives.

So...the question then becomes, how to balance the need to prevent outrageous abuses with the right of parents to raise their kids as they see fit?

Is there an answer? Not sure...certainly not an easy one, of course...

But thats the real crux of the problem, no? Not the wholesale banning of outside intervention, I would say.


edit: snipped out long quote

[ July 08, 2004, 17:30: Message edited by: alarikf ]

[AMF]

In a related note, there is a vote on the Patriot act possibly coming up:

Patriot Act foes force House vote

Thursday, July 8, 2004 Posted: 10:46 AM EDT (1446 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Lawmakers who say portions of the USA Patriot Act went too far are taking aim at its provision that made it easier for investigators to learn what people are reading -- despite a veto threat from the White House.

The House planned to vote Thursday on a proposal by Rep. Bernard Sanders, I-Vermont, that would prevent the government from using the Patriot Act to demand records from book stores and libraries.

The election-season showdown is the latest over the law, which Bush has sought to expand but which Democrats and some conservative Republicans say has infringed on individual rights.

...more at: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

[Atrocities]

I should note that child protection laws are there to protect a child from abuse. Parents who abuse their children know what they are doing.

You never beat the **** out of a child. In all the time that I was growing up I was only spanked a few times, and never more than two or three swats.

When I was in the first grade a kid kicked me in face as we layed in the library reading books. His name was Darrel and his uncle was the school principal. He kicked me once, and when he went to do it a second time I bit his leg resulting in some discomfort for him. I did not break the skin, nor did stop him from kicking me. I was in fact kicked many more times. However two days later I was taken to the principals office and spanked by the Principal for biting. He hit me seven times with a big wooden pattle.

After school I went home, and as we ate dinner, toco's, I told my mom and dad that I was spanked at school.

The story gets a whole lot worse but I am not going to get into it. Needless to say that was the worst beating I ever received by an adult, and it was committed by a school offical.

Parents who occationally spank their child or raise their voice at times are not evil, abusive parents. They are simply parents trying to do the best they can within the own little world and to be frank I sincerely believe that the state should stay the hell out of their lives and go after the drug using, homeless parents who would rather take a hit off a crack pipe than feed their kids. Or the parents that are beating their kids.

[psimancer]

personally i agree with atrocities 99 percent
however i also agree with mr gervais

however the underlying reason for these problems can easily be traced to one root cause

a statistical analysis of the jobs per person per population will quickly show that as the population of the united states has grown from 1944 to 2004 the number of available quality jobs per person has declined (quality is defined as a job capable of supporting a family of 4 being father mother 2 children 1 pet)

i have come to the conclusion that the underlying cause of much of the diffuculties of the usa and many other countries is overpopulation
i dont mean in regards to space as take a area im familiar with san antonio texas from 1944 to 2004 the city of san antonio has grown massivly in 60 years they have changed from a pop of a few hundred thousand to a million not including the outlying areas outside the metro area this is a growth of over ten times in 3 generations (one generation being typically 20 years i think)

as our population increases the jobs that can support those people keep getting split down to smaller less pauying jobs

there is a point of diminishing returns and the world did reach it in the 70's
the chinese have realized te problem for themselves and instituted a program to reduce their popuation however i have yet to see what results they have acheived (if any) in providing incentives for one child families

to understand this problem on a more gut level please read ann mccaferies pegasus in flight