Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV

[AMF]

In a related note, there is a vote on the Patriot act possibly coming up:

Patriot Act foes force House vote

Thursday, July 8, 2004 Posted: 10:46 AM EDT (1446 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Lawmakers who say portions of the USA Patriot Act went too far are taking aim at its provision that made it easier for investigators to learn what people are reading -- despite a veto threat from the White House.

The House planned to vote Thursday on a proposal by Rep. Bernard Sanders, I-Vermont, that would prevent the government from using the Patriot Act to demand records from book stores and libraries.

The election-season showdown is the latest over the law, which Bush has sought to expand but which Democrats and some conservative Republicans say has infringed on individual rights.

...more at: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

[Atrocities]

I should note that child protection laws are there to protect a child from abuse. Parents who abuse their children know what they are doing.

You never beat the **** out of a child. In all the time that I was growing up I was only spanked a few times, and never more than two or three swats.

When I was in the first grade a kid kicked me in face as we layed in the library reading books. His name was Darrel and his uncle was the school principal. He kicked me once, and when he went to do it a second time I bit his leg resulting in some discomfort for him. I did not break the skin, nor did stop him from kicking me. I was in fact kicked many more times. However two days later I was taken to the principals office and spanked by the Principal for biting. He hit me seven times with a big wooden pattle.

After school I went home, and as we ate dinner, toco's, I told my mom and dad that I was spanked at school.

The story gets a whole lot worse but I am not going to get into it. Needless to say that was the worst beating I ever received by an adult, and it was committed by a school offical.

Parents who occationally spank their child or raise their voice at times are not evil, abusive parents. They are simply parents trying to do the best they can within the own little world and to be frank I sincerely believe that the state should stay the hell out of their lives and go after the drug using, homeless parents who would rather take a hit off a crack pipe than feed their kids. Or the parents that are beating their kids.

[psimancer]

personally i agree with atrocities 99 percent
however i also agree with mr gervais

however the underlying reason for these problems can easily be traced to one root cause

a statistical analysis of the jobs per person per population will quickly show that as the population of the united states has grown from 1944 to 2004 the number of available quality jobs per person has declined (quality is defined as a job capable of supporting a family of 4 being father mother 2 children 1 pet)

i have come to the conclusion that the underlying cause of much of the diffuculties of the usa and many other countries is overpopulation
i dont mean in regards to space as take a area im familiar with san antonio texas from 1944 to 2004 the city of san antonio has grown massivly in 60 years they have changed from a pop of a few hundred thousand to a million not including the outlying areas outside the metro area this is a growth of over ten times in 3 generations (one generation being typically 20 years i think)

as our population increases the jobs that can support those people keep getting split down to smaller less pauying jobs

there is a point of diminishing returns and the world did reach it in the 70's
the chinese have realized te problem for themselves and instituted a program to reduce their popuation however i have yet to see what results they have acheived (if any) in providing incentives for one child families

to understand this problem on a more gut level please read ann mccaferies pegasus in flight

[AMF]

Originally posted by psimancer:
the chinese have realized te problem for themselves and instituted a program to reduce their popuation however i have yet to see what results they have acheived (if any) in providing incentives for one child families

The Chinese don't offer a lot of incentives, they do offer a whole mess of disincentives. Basically, the One-Child policy allows you to have, er, One child. If you have a girl the first time, you can get one more shot at having a boy. Also, peasants in the country side can have up to two children in any case (they need the labor). The Chinese government enforces this law through a series of tough repercussions and forced sterilization of women. They can do this becuase the governemt is, essentially, a self-perpetuating autocracy with legitimacy shakily based on the concept that they are the inherotirs of the shared struggle of the revolution.

India is trying to enact such a policy, but as the "largest democracy in the world" it's very hard to see how it will ever bear fruit.

[AMF]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Parents who occationally spank their child or raise their voice at times are not evil, abusive parents. They are simply parents trying to do the best they can within the own little world and to be frank I sincerely believe that the state should stay the hell out of their lives and go after the drug using, homeless parents who would rather take a hit off a crack pipe than feed their kids. Or the parents that are beating their kids.

See, we agree 100% on this statement! Yay! Consensus!

But, I am confused by the Last sentence: "to be frank I sincerely believe that the state should ...go after ...the parents that are beating their kids."

The hard part, from a public policy point of view, is how do we do that while still not trampling on personal freedoms?

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by David E. Gervais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Why can't parents take responsibility for their kids?

Well, the answer to this is simple,.. because the parents are not at home to raise their kids. So why should they be held responsible? (in case it is lost in print..this statement is dripping in sarcasm.)

Seriously, in my generation, there was always one of the parents at home to 'raise' the kids.

---

Hmmm I guess everything has its pros and cons. I have 2 boys. One is handicapped. We were never people to complain, he brought us joy and solidarity. But it did have effects. Both are mid-20s now and all thru their lives there has ALWAYS been a parent (or grandparent) home. I mean ALWAYS as in pretty much 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

When people meet my kids I get asked alot what I did right (seriously). I had answers, but had never considered this. I think I will add to my responses that my handicapped child might have forced us to make some accidentally right choices. It was hard to do but maybe it was a good thing.

As for the punishment thing, yes they both were spanked. Id make a statement, and they always got to disagree (once), I might agree or discuss or Id just say it again and THAT was it. Making me or mom say something a third time was dangerous territory.

[ July 08, 2004, 18:02: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Atrocities]

Ah I was just ranting......