MP Game - Graeme's New Game

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Wendigo:
Yet you are. And with those personal attacks you are not only soiling his reputation, but yours also. You could have simply said 'I have no fun playing with NF' instead of insulting him, by calling him a cheater.

I called him a cheater because he _cheated_. I _tried_ to let the issue die in this thread, but Norfleet had to show up and be a patronizing ******* _before_ I accused him of being a cheater in this thread.

You do not consider his 2 lies ethic, fine, but that does not make him a cheater and your insistence on using the term harms you as much as it harms him.

Behaving in an unethical manner _is_ cheating. To cheat is to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice, or to practice fraud or trickery.

Say player X, Y & Z are in the same game, and in a game related thread X tells Y "do not attack me, I am weak, attack Z instead who is the biggest threat" with this being a lie. Would this be 'cheating'?

Not at all, since the player isn't trying to disguise their identity. A player's identity is entirely outside the scope of in-game information.

So you can lie in Messages, you can lie in e-mail but you cannot lie in a thread about the game in a forum or chat room? Where's that rule written? what kind of logic do you use to draw the line?

A player's identity is not in-game information about the strength of a nation or alliances.

Why should he? You have yet to back this with a single reason that doesn't fall in the field of personal ethics.

Cheating is part of personal ethics. You cannot separate the two.

Frankly, drop it. It hurts his reputation, it hurts the atmosphear of this forum, and it hurts you by giving the image of someone engaged in a personal vendetta with no solid ground to be based on. At least in my eyes as an outsider.

Quite frankly, I don't really care if it hurts his reputation, since he does a good enough job of that by himself.

[ June 01, 2004, 18:49: Message edited by: Graeme Dice ]

[Tuidjy]

If it is not too late, I'd like to play Marignon.
I have never played them, but Hell, I'd like to
give them a try :-)

[Reverend Zombie]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:
how does one e-mail a Pretender? (i.e., where do I find a Pretender in the Dominions2 folder?)

It is in the newlords directory, as the .2h file with the name of your nation.

---

Thanks!

[Wendigo]

To cheat is to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice, or to practice fraud or trickery.

With such a broad definition of cheating any single lie/backstab in diplomacy would qualify as tricking the opposition, and ergo 'cheating'. That would be ridiculous.

Equaling cheating to 'breaking the game rules' makes much more sense in our context as gamers.

A player's identity is not in-game information about the strength of a nation or alliances.

Yet when the game was created it was not requested that every player should reveal his personal information, players joined using their aliases instead. Thus, no rule was broken by hidding this, nor had he any obligation to reveal it just because an opponent asked.

Cheating is part of personal ethics. You cannot separate the two.

Of course you can separate personnal ethics & cheating.

Setting up a big alliance to gang on a neighbour 6 on 1 giving him no chance is something I would not be confortable with ethic-wise, yet it would not be cheating. Conversely, if I am the one in the receiving end of such alliance I will moan & ***** a bit about unfairness, but I will not call my opponents cheaters.

[Sly Frog]

Originally posted by Wendigo:
[QB] Yet you are. And with those personal attacks you are not only soiling his reputation, but yours also. You could have simply said 'I have no fun playing with NF' instead of insulting him, by calling him a cheater.

I think this is a little unfair to Graeme. I read the thread from the first post forward. It's pretty clear that Norfleet knew that he was not wanted (or at least should have known based on the other threads he's participated in, where he was told he was not wanted). Then, like a pretentious smart ***, he tried to take a side in Graeme's game. I was expecting a big blow out fight, but in fact, all Graeme did was ignore Norfleet, setting up a nation list that did not include him. It was only after Graeme was specifically called out that he gave his reasoning; he did not want to play with a cheater.

I'm actually suprised at Graeme's restraint, and think he handled it pretty well. If you want him to lie as to why he does not want to play with Norfleet when he is asked, that's your concern.

[PvK]

I agree that "cheating" in a game context implies breaking the rules or abusing the computer program or data. Something along those lines.

I can understand not wanting players to take diplomatic deception to extremes that extend to multiple identities, chat and email and out-of-character deceptions, I think "cheating" implies something else (unless the game had explicit rules against such things).

PvK

[Cheezeninja]

Can we all just admit that everyone has valid and differing opinions on this subject, and thus prevent the hijacking of yet another thread?