Counter Intelligence Questions

[DirectorTsaarx]

quote:

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Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Counter-intelligence operations are expensive because it is YOUR spending against the ATTACKER's spending. If the counter-intelligence operation costs less than the attacking operation, it cannot neutralize it.

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Very good; a concise explanation that is completely correct.

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That's why the "Puppet Political Parties" operation is so hard to counter. You need counter-intel level three and the points to match the attackers spending.

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Well, actually, PPP costs 100,000 Intel points. Counter-Intelligence level I costs... 100,000 Intel points. So level 1 could (if you spend more points per turn on it than the opponent, and the CI doesn't block another Intel op in the meantime) block a PPP attack. Especially if the "Counter-Intel Bonus" setting in Settings.txt is working. The benefit to using a higher-level CI project is that you're more likely to have a high amount of CI points built up when an attack comes through.

As I said earlier, the only project that costs MORE than a level 1 CI project is Technological Espionage, at 150,000 points.

[PsychoTechFreak]

My observations to CI:

-CI points don't stack/accumulate every turn, this is not like an Intel project or research project

-so the maximum possible CI value is the same as the Intel-points you produce every turn

-I have checked this: Empire A has a CI-level III project, 25000 points, which means it can counter intel for this amount every turn (see above),
Empire B ran 4 small intel projects (5000 to 15000 points), all four projects completed in the same turn and all projects failed due to the one CI project of Empire A

I have tested this with two empires against one CI-level 3 project also, with same results, so don't waste your Intel-slots, one huge CI-level 3 project will do it, unless you produce more than 500000 points each turn, then you should divide projects. This makes sense to me.

[This message has been edited by PsychoTechFreak (edited 13 April 2001).]

[DirectorTsaarx]

PsychoTechFreak: your testing appears to be the opposite of what Malfador has stated about Counter-Intel.

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From the Malfador website Q&A:
Defense intelligence projects will have their points depleted (the points you are paying in to complete them) as they defend against attacks. Once a defensive project expires, you will have to start it again to continue your protection. The more projects you have going, the better your protection will be. However, if you have a defensive intelligence project, and you are not spending any points towards it, it will not provide any protection.

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[DirectorTsaarx]

quote:

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Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
My observations to CI:

-CI points don't stack/accumulate every turn, this is not like an Intel project or research project

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This has not been my experience at all. I've had up to 12 CI operations running at one time, with about 4k points per turn for each operation, and still been able to block enemy intel ops. There aren't many Intel ops that only cost 4k points...

[PsychoTechFreak]

Well, what I have done is just to check if one single CI project would protect against multiple Intel attacks, and it does (even against multiple races !). Ok, it's not a bad idea to have multiple CI projects, but just because my single CI project expires if it is needed to counter intel attacks in a single turn (I can see an attack in the turn before I receive the message, CI project will complete in 1 turn !) ...

What have I meant with accumulation/stack ?: e.g. if you run one single CI project, you won't see the points increasing every turn until it reaches 100K or so like in normal intel or research projects. In every peaceful turn (w/o intel attacks) it will show you exactly the amount of produced intel points if you have no other projects running.

P.S.: As long as I produce less than 500K points I have two CI level 3 projects (if one completes due to intel attacks, you have another one for the rest of the points); and the repeat project button set to active, so I don't need to observe my CI every turn.

[This message has been edited by PsychoTechFreak (edited 14 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by PsychoTechFreak (edited 14 April 2001).]

[raynor]

I just ran a test.

Empire Alpha - 6,000 intel points spent on 5,000 point attack that should finish every turn.

Empire Beta - 8800 intel points on CI-3 that shouldn't finisih for 57 turns.

Here are the turn by turn results:
1. Empire A fails; Empire B's CI project has 5.4 years to go
2. Empire A fails; Empire B's CI project has 4.3 years to go
3. Empire A fails; Empire B's CI project has .4 years to go
4. Empire A fails; Empire B's CI project has 0 years to go

Comments?



[This message has been edited by raynor (edited 14 April 2001).]

[PsychoTechFreak]

Yep, intel attacks seem to add points to CI projects (and yes, points which are not used to counter intel attacks accumulate to your CI projects too, sorry , it seems I had testet this with almost equal amounts of attack to counter-points, so they have been eaten up) , but something smells fishy, which needs some declaration from a god-like Intel user (anyone out there ?)

I've got another one for you:

- 12 CI level 3 projects, 10000 produced intel points which are divided evenly to each project, so every project gets something like completed in 5 to 6 years

-let the other empire repeat a small project (5000 to 10000 points) and watch your CI projects (the bar at the bottom)

- some projects will nearly complete the next turn (they counter the attack) and some will be at 80% or 90%

-now secure one of the 90% slots: uncheck the divide points evenly button and put this valuable CI project to the end of the chain (it seems to be 450.000 points worth, although you haven't produced that much points in this short period)

-will this 90% CI 3 project protect you against 450000 attack points ? You bet ! Let the other empire run three Tech Espionage projects run against it (must be ready in the same turn), they will fail most likely, I have tried this 3 times



[This message has been edited by PsychoTechFreak (edited 14 April 2001).]