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October 30th, 2003, 03:05 AM
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Major
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Forest of Avalon
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Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
I think a distinction has to be made here between Light Infantry and conscripted crappy infantry. That's the point I was trying to make with the hypaspists - they (in Dom I, which is what was my frame of reference) are a light infantry, but still very useful. Whereas on the other hand militia aren't very useful, and I think that's appropriate.
So there are 3 classes of troops (very roughly):
• Heavy Infantry [well-trained, thick armour, poor defense, slow-moving]
• Light Infantry [well-trained, light armour, high defense, fast-moving]
• Conscripts [poorly trained, light armour, low defense, average movement]
You would expect quality LI to have lesser PROT than HI, but greater DEF and AP, and that's exactly the difference between Hypaspists and Hoplites in Dom I [Hypaspists' stats are quite a bit different in Dom II]. It's easy to see the advantages of both, under this paradigm: when fighting slow but strong troops you'd want LI, because their higher DEF score should avoid the attacks altogether. In the same situation HI would do alot worse, because they wouldn't dodge any of the attacks, and therefore get damaged a lot.
Militia would be pathetic in this (and pretty much every other) situation.
In other words: I'm just fine with militia-like troops not being used much - conscripted troops with little training have always been best as cannon (or dragon) fodder, and not much good at anything else. On the other hand, well-trained light infantry should be useful, and if this means a DEF boost, so be it.
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October 30th, 2003, 03:11 AM
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Captain
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
Quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
>4 Hypaspists for 60 gold
>14 Cardaces for 140 gold
The resource costs of Hypaspists have doubled!
This now makes the Cardaces much more attractive and the Hypaspists near worthless.
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The hypaspists near worthless? If you compare them with cardaces gold10 res6: they have morale +4 attack +1 defense, +1 prot +7. If you compare them with hoplites: gold11 res 28, they have prot -4, morale +2, def +4, strat move +1. I think they fill a niche between the hoplites and the cardaces, especially in the early game where you have a limited number of castles.
[ October 30, 2003, 01:58: Message edited by: Kristoffer O ]
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October 30th, 2003, 03:14 AM
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Major
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Forest of Avalon
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Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
Quote:
Originally posted by PvK:
The Hypaspists are still the most skilled of the three melee infantry types, so when gold is low, or when you're trying to get the best strength per supply use, they make sense to use.
PvK
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Hypaspists cost more in gold than hoplites or cardaces. And their basic stats are much the same as the hoplites, barring PROT, DEF, ENC, and AP - all these you would expect to be different, given different armour. The only other difference is MRL, which they of course are superior in.
And apoger, they more than doubled since Dom I: 8 -> 18
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October 30th, 2003, 03:29 AM
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National Security Advisor
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 8,806
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Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
Hypaspists have one higher basic defense, even before armor. The other difference is that (again, due to armor) they move faster - twice as fast when marching through friendly provinces.
PvK
[ October 30, 2003, 01:30: Message edited by: PvK ]
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October 30th, 2003, 03:49 AM
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Major
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Oregon
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Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
Quote:
Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Would you mind pointing out, specifically, the overly complex portion, and specifically provide a simpler replacement? There are some changes I'd like, but I don't think they make the game simpler. So I'm quite curious as to the nature of your complaint(s), and your suggestion(s)... I like simple, deep things.
If I'm overlooking something obvious in one of your Posts, please point me to it.
-Cherry [/QB]
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Something like the miniatures game Armati. There are other popular miniatures games too, although I'd shy away from the Warhammer stuff.
I highly recommend taking a look at Armati 2, which is due out around the end of this year.
-Jasper
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October 30th, 2003, 03:52 AM
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Second Lieutenant
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Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
Perhaps I need to qualify what I said.
Hypaspists aren't "bad", however in the early game players will want bulk, that means Cardaces. Later when they want quality, they will go right to Hoplites. The other units available are what make hypaspists obsolete.
IMHO the resource increase was too heavy handed (much like many of the game changes).
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October 30th, 2003, 03:54 AM
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Major
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Oregon
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Re: in which occasion will you raise taxes
Quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
>4 Hypaspists for 60 gold
>14 Cardaces for 140 gold
The resource costs of Hypaspists have doubled!
This now makes the Cardaces much more attractive and the Hypaspists near worthless.
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Well, you can't use them for the same fast early
start effect as you could in Dom 1, and for that you're right, Cardaces are better. Overall I think they're definitely better, and I suspect would beat Hoplites cost for cost in melee.
Plus HI with a strategic move of 2 is pretty nice.
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