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  #1  
Old November 1st, 2003, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Hi All:

Dryton raises some issues that I believe should be addressed by Shrapnel here. Hope you don't mind me barging in on your discussion.

As most of you know, we don't supply our games through the normal retailer network, as this is a sure way to make sure our developers make absolutely nothing on their games. Therefore, we don't sell tens of thousands of copies of our games. This alone, the economy of printing, makes our games a higher price point than most of what you find in the market place.

We have titles that have been in the market for 4 years that now, on reprints, cost as much as 25% more than they did when Shrapnel Games started. This due to the fact that printers and cd duplicators raise their pricing on an annual basis. We have never raised our pricing. In fact, we are considering moving our pricing higher in the coming month. Not because we want to, but because we need to.

The manual for Dominions II is our largest to date, weighing in at 146 pages. It is however, not in color as someone else posted. Wish we could have done it in color, but for a manual this size, the price of printing in color would have been over $30.00 per unit. Still, the manual is huge and includes a reference of all magic items and spells.

As the Shrapnel faithful also knows, we support our products relentlessly through patches, demo downloads, these forums and a customer service department second to none in this industry. All of these things cost alot of money. We run two dedicated servers - soon to be three - just to handle the traffic.

While I'm thinking of it, someone mentioned in another post that maybe we would sell more copies if we lowered the price. We have experimented with this through sales and special offers and have found this not to be the case for Shrapnel. Our special pricing events do nothing (less than 5%) to increase sales. People buy our games not on price, but because they like the type of game we are known for. Even long term price changes, we have had a few, do nothing to increase our sales.

Which brings me to Dryton's comment about this not being an "A-list" game. Dryton, this is an "A-list" GAME , as all of our titles are. What it is not, is an "A-list" piece of fluff. We don't publish fluff -- gameplay is what games should be about, and Dominions II has more game and replay value than any major publishers product that I know of.

Now alot of the Dominions crowd is new to Shrapnel Games and probably doesn't understand our philosophy as is stated in the above paragraph. We are all about making quality games, and very little about making the next generation graphics engine that has no gaming value. We couldn't sell these types of games the way we do. We would have to put them into retail just to get the "oh wow, look at the graphics" impulse buy. Does that mean we don't want our games to look nice? Not at all. And I thnk all of our games do look nice. They just aren't all state of the art. If that offends you, I'm sure you have an e-retailer just down the street that has shelves full of graphics marvels.

Okay, on to the tutorial. We are considering doing something with the demos. With each new developer, we get a new crowd. When I sat down with the game I spent about an hour playing it and realized the depth and the intangibles of this title. This game is something special and if presales are any indication, alot of others think so too. This game can be almost anything you want in a gaming experience and we thought limiting it with alot of pre-setup would not be a good thing. We may have been wrong. We know this partially because a group of people are unhappy with the AI. I say to them, you haven't set it up for a hard game, if you think the AI is that easy. So, we will keep you informed of what we decide to do with the demos.

I have gotten off on a rant, which was not my intention. Sorry. I hope this helped explain Shrapnel's position some.

Happy Gaming!
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Old November 1st, 2003, 02:45 AM

Mortifer Mortifer is offline
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Brooks:
gameplay is what games should be about, and Dominions II has more game and replay value than any major publishers product that I know of.
How true Tim. I agree with this totally.

Also 50 bucks is a very good price for the most complex strategy game ever.
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Old October 31st, 2003, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim Brooks:
Hi All:
The manual for Dominions II is our largest to date, weighing in at 146 pages. It is however, not in color as someone else posted. Wish we could have done it in color, but for a manual this size, the price of printing in color would have been over $30.00 per unit. Still, the manual is huge and includes a reference of all magic items and spells.
$30.00 for a single manual in color? I have been quite surprised by this figure. I do trust you, but such a price seems... well, *very* expensive. Manuals that expensive are indeed a problem. I don't mind a black and white manual myself, as long as it is complete.

I agree hearthly with the points you raised in your post. (Especially when it comes to the emphasis upon gameplay rather than shiny new graphics)

[ October 31, 2003, 13:04: Message edited by: Alneyan ]
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Old October 31st, 2003, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

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I've said it before, I'd rather play something interesting and involving than just "ooh" and "ahh" at shiny objects. Too many of the big time publishers push things out the door in a hurry and only worry about the eye/ear candy (MoO3 anyone?). I'll support Shrapnel and their product line any day so long as they continue to focus on quality of content over "shiny objects".
THIS is SO TRUE !! So many big companies have their developers wasting time on the most elite graphic designs... thus game content and additional features suffer. Warcraft_III did this by shrinking the map size into 90X90 ! Heroes_IV removed monsters and poor quality AI ! The biggest disappointment is how none of these big companies are able to develop intelligent AI opponents. The big companies solution is always 'Give the AI opponents more resources' ... the end.

I bought the game because the game content quality seems very good. Personally graphics only need to be as good as the original Diablo... and that game was only 10MB in size.
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Old October 31st, 2003, 03:17 PM

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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Heroes IV. strategical AI was very bad, even worse than our current Doms II. strat AI. The Heroes IV. devs knew about it, there were lot of discussion about it...but they did nothing about it.....
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Old October 31st, 2003, 05:28 PM

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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Heh, I actually have some experience with making color documents, I'm somewhat surprised that the cost would only have been $30 for a 150 pages, though I don't know the volume...

Your points are well taken Tim, I've been trying to point out the same thing in various threads, the consumer simply doens't know the costs, nor (in most cases) what a reasonable margin is. I do hope that the demo is rereleased when the game ships to be a bit more user friendly though, or at least some new files with more explicit instructions on how to start are made available for download with the demo.
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Old October 31st, 2003, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Concerns about lack of Tutorial and Price of Game

Normally, I'll pay no more than $40 for a game. Just depends on the game. With that said, I sent in my check today for the game, because the description sounds like it will be a killer game (I just wish I had played Dom I, or at least seen it in action. I'm buying this game on faith, but Shrapnel Games hasn't disappointed me in any of the purchases I've made so far). I don't really care about the graphics as much as gameplay. Space Empires 4 Gold is a very good example of gameplay over graphics. But I also play Galactic Civilzations. So I'm anxiously waiting to play th is game.
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