second class super combattants

[MStavros]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
That's fine, but that's not what the thread was about. Perhaps your post should have been more clear? Your original post did not in any way mention pretenders, and from the location, the implication was that you, personally, found that "second-class summonable supercombattants" were destroying the strategic portion of Dominions 2.

Anyway, I'm not going to pollute the thread anymore with a pointless argument. But keep in mind there's a difference between gratuitous humor and gratuitous criticism. If you're going to criticize, at least explain what you're criticizing, and then post it somewhere relevant - this thread is NOT about pretenders.

-Cherry

Yes, maybe I wasn't clear enough. Still DO NOT call anyone a troll, since you are one of them. You are posting too much trollish things (Saber C. is trying to be funny in 8/10 Posts, and those are totally useless Posts}, so you should be quiet.
Anyways no hard feelings, I WAS talking about pretender SCs, but late game SCs COULD be a problem, since a few SCs killing whole armies makes no sense to me you know...that is why I've posted that they are killing the strategic part of the game, but this won't be a problem, if the mod tools will be good enough.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Jasper:
I think the automatic damage per hit is a bad idea

Indeed. That would make all low def/low hp (eg, Ulm Guardians) useless.

[Sammual]

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
I have to admit to being a bit lost regarding some of the early game SC concerns due to lack of details.

I've experimented with a Niefelheim SC Bless race (see Niefelheimn thread) with the Earth mother Earth 9, nature 9 and my experiances don't fit the picture being painted. My blessed, sacred Niefel Giants die with great ease fighting any troops capable of dealing out alot of damage. Remember they have prot +4, berserk 3, regeneration and reinvigoration - yet they get slaughtered by Knights! The Earth Mother is very vunerable without magic items - slowing down her usage and making her researching ability tempting.

My Niefel Giants with Water 9 / Nature 9 Blessings go down alot as well. Worse I have the hardest time keeping my Pretender and my Prophet from going blind.

I am not saying that they are not effective because they are. I just lose them almost as fast as I make them. I trade them for new provences and winning battles.

Sammual

[LordArioch]

If SC pretenders are as powerful as is claimed, could somebody give an example of a setup for their SC pretender? I can't seem to get one that can beat indys safely and reliably on any setting higher than 3.

[Pocus]

when we are speaking of super combattant pretenders, we are not speaking of naked pretenders you know. A single medallion of luck can be the difference between life and death.

[apoger]

>If SC pretenders are as powerful as is claimed, could somebody give an example of a setup for their SC pretender? I can't seem to get one that can beat indys safely and reliably on any setting higher than 3.

I offered this advice a few days ago, but it gets buried fast.

For a simple way to learn try;

A Manticore
astral - 6
earth - 1

Research alteration - 3, enchantment - 3

Place the Manticore in the rear.
Orders to cast: Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, Ironskin, Personal Luck, Astral Weapon.
Then attack rearmost.

Send it in alone, you don't want to rout when your army loses a morale check.

Get it rings that protect versus elements if you are attacking a cold or heat nation. Get a ring of tamed lightning if attacking an air nation.

This simple configuration will cut through 95% of conventional armies like a hot knife through butter. Use it to gobble up provinces and abuse the computer AI.

It's not invincible. But will handle a whole lot of trouble.

This will put you on the path towards understanding the potency of super combatants.

[LordArioch]

I decided to quickly throw together such a pretender with the magic levels and just run him around blindly seeing how many str 5 independent provinces he could capture. I think I got maybe 10 before he died.
The problem with that particular setup as with most SC I've made is the fatigue. Some spell that targets a unit and makes a chest wound would be really effective against pretenders without enc 0.
My manticore picked up a chest wound and that took him out. Still, I think I see that the key elements of the design are from the astral magic.
(Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, Personal Luck)
This same astral magic leaves him somewhat exposed to mind duels.
Also attack rearmost, in my experience, is probably inferior to attack archers if you suspect your opponent has archers. Attacking the rear of the enemy melee troops isn't usually as good as hitting the archers who might very well be near the mages.

But I'm not an expert so feel free to point out where I'm wrong.

[ November 03, 2003, 20:40: Message edited by: LordArioch ]