D2 vs Aow:SM

[Elmo]

After all the positive feedback and a run through the demo I ordered D2. Now all I have to do is convince my wife it's not going under the Christmas tree!

PS - Now when is that patch coming out?

[ November 26, 2003, 15:42: Message edited by: Elmo ]

[MythicalMino]

cool...welcome to the pack

[Elmo]

Originally posted by cpbeller:
cool...welcome to the pack

Thanks. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do in this forum while waiting for the game to arrive!

[Altus]

Originally posted by ceremony:
I wouldn't call Shadow Magic a "beer & pretzels" game at all. You need to pay really close attention to a lot of things, much as you would in a hardcore wargame. I've had players hand me my *** in m/p because I miscounted by one movement point.

Dominions 2 is, in my opinion, a far superior design to Shadow Magic. But neither one is a "beer & pretzels" game.

If you read this thread from the beginning and my post, instead of quoting out of context, you would know both pertain to a comparison of SM and Dom2's AI, not multiplayer. I stand by my statement that SM is a 'beer & pretzel' fantasy wargame. I could beat the AI handily sloshed, let alone while imbibing a few beers.

The reason you might have seen the term 'beer & pretzels' on Underdog is because it originated before there were live multiplayer PC games, with the older PC titles; at that time even PBEM was revolutionary and BBS games were a wonder.

It referred to PC games and the quality, or lack thereof, of the AI. Actually, to use the term to describe a multiplayer game, PC or board, would be an insult to the players involved. Human oppponents require more attention and respect. I have never seen anyone use 'beer & pretzel' to describe multiplayer gameplay before.

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Altus:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ceremony:
I wouldn't call Shadow Magic a "beer & pretzels" game at all. You need to pay really close attention to a lot of things, much as you would in a hardcore wargame. I've had players hand me my *** in m/p because I miscounted by one movement point.

Dominions 2 is, in my opinion, a far superior design to Shadow Magic. But neither one is a "beer & pretzels" game.

If you read this thread from the beginning and my post, instead of quoting out of context, you would know both pertain to a comparison of SM and Dom2's AI, not multiplayer. I stand by my statement that SM is a 'beer & pretzel' fantasy wargame. I could beat the AI handily sloshed, let alone while imbibing a few beers.

The reason you might have seen the term 'beer & pretzels' on Underdog is because it originated before there were live multiplayer PC games, with the older PC titles; at that time even PBEM was revolutionary and BBS games were a wonder.

It referred to PC games and the quality, or lack thereof, of the AI. Actually, to use the term to describe a multiplayer game, PC or board, would be an insult to the players involved. Human oppponents require more attention and respect. I have never seen anyone use 'beer & pretzel' to describe multiplayer gameplay before.

---

LOL. "Beer and pretzels" predates any PC gaming (yes, even ADVENT). It was used to refer to "lightweight" board/tabletop games (those that are simpler and/or more chance based and therefore require less serious thought - note that it's not the opponents that make a game beer & pretzels, but the games themselves).

A lousy AI doesn't make a game beer and pretzels - it just makes it a game with a lousy AI.

I wouldn't consider AOWSM beer and pretzels, either. But it's a lot closer than Dom II.

[Elmo]

I agree that the term came before computer games. Since I started playing beer and pretzels board games back in the 60's I feel somewhat qualified to post on the subject. IMO it referred more to the rules difficulty than anything else. Such games had easy to learn rules even if the play of the game wasn't always trivial. A game like Risk comes to mind as a good example. Very easy rules but it could still be a cutthroat game between skilled players.

[PvK]

Yep.