Blood?

[Gandalf Parker]

Hellbind Heart. One of my Favorites. A double-shammy. Remove a major commander from them causing all of that commanders troops to flee the field. AND add a commander to you, with all his equipment/gems. Adding a seasoned Caelum commander to Jotunheim really touches up an army. Or Ulm snagging an Arcos mage.

Safer if some with something like "Wind Ride".
Extra bonuses if it can be done by an assassin.
Also can be used for trading units between allies.

[ December 27, 2003, 14:53: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Truper]

Sigh. Ice Devils sure aren't what they used to be. Ironic MP story:

I was playing Vanheim, and the big nasty power in the game was Pythium. I thought Blood might be my trump card to even things up a bit. One of the maps has a 4 province sea - I was on one side and Pythium was on the other. I thought taking the sea would not only give me some much-needed income, but provide considerable flexibility in where I could strike. I remebered from Dom1 that one ID could deal with any number of Tritons properly equipped. So I prepared his kit: Wraith Sword, Chainmail of Displacement, and Amulet of Antimagic. I contracted with another player to get a snake ring (2nd sigh - sometime in the 40s and I still had no one with a random in nature). So I finally got all that and the 55 slaves together, summoned the bad boy... and he had no hand slots! No Wraith Sword for him. He managed to take the 1st sea province I sent him into anyway, but lost an eye doing so - never would have happened could he but wield the sword. He took one other sea province, but died trying to take the 3rd - though in between, he did help me kill a Queen of Elemental Air, so I did get some good use out of him.

Next, I thought I'd try a Succubus. She was loads of fun to use, but never seduced a single commander, preferring always to simply kill them. I'm guessing from Kristoffer's comments in another thread, my experience in this game, and a little single player experience, that Succubi will refuse to seduce mages, and that their taste inclines to "leaders". Ah well. At least she made a good recipient for the Wraith Sword I'd forged.

A bit later, I decided to go for another Ice Devil. This one came with the usual 3 in Water, but also 2 in Astral - not much use against Pythium. I never even dared to send him out in what little remained of the game - he became a very expensive researcher.

Ice Devils sure aren't what they used to be...

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by apoger:
Hordes from Hell.

Blood magic is worth it just for this spell.

I've heard you say this a couple of times but I really have to ask why? Lvl 5 spell for a bunch of crappy imps (and imps are crap) and one devil for 30 blood slaves and a level 4 blood mage - what is the big deal? Sure you can cast them all over the place but I don't think it is worth the mnassive expenditure that is establishing a blood economy for Hordes of Hell - they are useful but not that good.

I have spent half a game being harassed by people using rituals to summon monsters in my "unprotected zones" and I have never found it that hard to deal with - decent level of defenses plus a few extra troops in strategically placed provinces you don't much want to lose and castles + a few patrallers in provinces that really matter. It has never seemed to me that I'm expending anything like the effort in fighting off harrassing rituals that the casters is spending casting them. Sure you can probably use the rituals more effectively than they have been used against me and I have had success using them but only significant success vs an unwary opponent.

What am I missing about Hordes from Hell?

Cheers

Keir

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Truper:
Sigh. Ice Devils sure aren't what they used to be. Ironic MP story:

summoned the bad boy... and he had no hand slots! No Wraith Sword for him.

Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

[warning rant mode ahead]

It would seem that the Dom1 players who called for the nerfing of blood have got their wish. Great.

Blood used to be fun, real fun - now its supposed to be worth it for Hordes from Hell???? Give me a break.

Sure you can do things with high level blood but in order to do so you have to channel resources that could be spent on expansion (which has a very high rate of return) and I question that its worth it. But most of all where is the fun in this? Take something that was really interesting and enjoyable and turn it into custard - yay!

Ice Devils have no hand slots? That is is so sad. No Devils to play with, no Ice Devils to look forward to, no Pazzazu to aim at just Horde from Hell and some silly fire magic devils who you don't really need. Aaaaaaaarrgggh!

*Gurggle Gurggle* - the sound of blood going down the drain.

Keir

[Graeme Dice]

Ice Devils have no hand slots? That is is so sad.

Have you actually ever looked at the seven different Ice Devils that you can receive? Nycator has two ice fists, and thus can't wield any other weapons. One of them summons free frost fiends, another is an unholy 3 priest. One has weaker physical stats but also has astral 2, which is very useful against anyone that isn't an astral king. The fifth has much better leadership abilities than the others. Number six has a hell sword and stinger built in, and is therefore immune to heat from the get go. The seventh is a fairly standard big attacker with a paralyzing stinger and some other weapon built in.

[apoger]

>Sure you can do things with high level blood but in order to do so you have to channel resources that could be spent on expansion

And how is that different from all the rest of the magic schools?


>Ice Devils have no hand slots?

Only one is missing it's hands. The others are fine.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by apoger:
>Sure you can do things with high level blood but in order to do so you have to channel resources that could be spent on expansion

And how is that different from all the rest of the magic schools?

Other schools get useful combat spells costing no gems which can be used early in the game.

Research used for other schools of magic is shared to a significant degree so that conjuration doesn't just get you fire spells.

The quantity of investment in getting other schools of magic up and running us much, much lower than blood.

The hit done to Pangaea to research eagle eyes to enhance their starting spell panic is minor but still distracts from expansion. Its probably worth it. Abysia starts with the spell Flare which used by an Anathament Dragon will give you a handy boost early - though you have to invest in the more expensive Dragon to do so. These are the sorts of querstions you face with other scholls of magic. Blood you don't even look at early due to the high cost of setup. In return it needs to be more powerful down the track not just Hordes from Hell powerful.

Maybe its the way I play the game and have seen other PBEM games played - fast. In a brutal world of pretenders striving for Asdcension I find things develop quick and late game doesn't necesserily come. The vast majority of PBEM games I have been in have ended in the mid game. As I'm not sure I'll have significant blood capability by that time I question the value of blood.

cheers

Keir