Why doesn't Arco have Phalangites (Pikemen) ?

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by PDF:
I've always wondered why Arco, that's clearly a Seleucid-type post-Alexander army, had Hoplites and Hypaspists but not the core unit of those armeis, the phalangite (pikemen with medium armor and shield).
I know the historical argument doesn't stand much for Dominions, but from a gameplay viewpoint, it would *also* give an interesting choice in Arco armies : Phalangite would have same gold cost than a Hoplite, but have Hypaspist-level armor and resource cost(or slightly less).
Just a thought ...

A very good question. The hoplites and hypaspists of arcoscephale are among the oldest units in the game. I don't know why, but I decided against making phalangites (I believe I was afraid of too many historical paraphrases back then). Now I can only wonder they havn't been made at a later date.

The long spear of the hoplites is used as a Sarissa (greek 1h pike). There are no other weapon of this length (perhaps the whip) and I wanted the 2h pike to be the longest weapon. I agree that the sarissa of the phalangites should have longer weapons then the hoplites, but also shorter than pikes. As there is only one other unit wielding a long spear (Man) length will rarely matter in longspear - sarissa comparisons (arco being the only nation fielding long spears).

As weapon modding is not yet available (it will be in 2.07) I suggest that you use long spears for the time being.

Gold is based upon the unit and resources on the equipment. So you are right. They should cost gold as a hoplite (if they keep the stats) and have resource cost of a hypaspist (if they keep the equipment - unless the Sarissa is more costly).

I'm looking forward to this mod

Do you have graphics yet? If you're lost I can extract some from the game and change the format, but it will take some time. If you can do it by your self, splendid

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Wauthan:
Pike is apparently not two handed. The new mod for Ulm sports a commander wielding a pike and shield.

...but that's a mistake. I believe the commander is suppsed to have a broadsword.

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Wauthan:
Pike is apparently not two handed. The new mod for Ulm sports a commander wielding a pike and shield.

...but that's a mistake. I believe the commander is suppsed to have a broadsword.

---

True.

[Keir Maxwell]

Good stuff PDF.

You can give a unit a two handed weapon and a shield - you just shouldn't normally.

Selucid (and Macedonian) pikes were very definitly two handed weapons of much greater length than than 8-10 footers habitually used by Hopilites. However it was possible to fight using a two handed pike in rigid formation while having a shield slung over your shoulder (not a big one) and your arm through the grip but still holding the pike shaft. Another example of somehting similar is Varangian Guardsmen and Anglo Danish Huskarls of whom we have accounts fighting with a two handed axe and a kite shield hung over the in such a fashion that they could maintian it in a useful position while atrtakcing in a reptitive downward chopping motion operating in close order.

Selucid Kataphracts varied in morale and equipment and if you want a rough break down of the different unit catergories (Companions, Agema, Line Cavalry) let me know.

cheers

Keir

[ January 18, 2004, 02:01: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]

[PDF]

Well, thanks to all for the interest !

Phalangites : KO (I mean Kristoffer ), if I use long 1H spear, my phalangite will only be an under-hoplite and not have much interest... I'd rather give them a "real" 2H pike and buff their armor somewhat (chainmail hauberk ?) to give them a decent prot.

About the graphics I really suck at that and don't event know how to change colors to an image without ruining the background, so I definitely need help ..

Cavalry : looking at the current unit what I think is that overall, the Arco HC need an improved, high morale unit to represent Agema/Companions, and maybe another "medium cav" Lancer unit (meant for shock and not too much expensive, in fact it could be a cool unit). The current LC looks Ok (crappy as all LC but OK...).
Keir, I have some material, but be happy to discuss equipement issues

As soon as I manage to find some time I'd post my units stats

[Pocus]

there is a length 6 pike in Ulm BF, if its of interest to you

[Kristoffer O]

The lancers and cavalry of the greek era did not use stirrups used by knights and HC of later times. The lance was released upon impact as the rider prefered to stay mounted.

Therefore the arcoscephalean cav do not have lances but spears. On the other hand they might deserve elite medium cavalry such as the Agema.