Jotun Gode overpriced?

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Basically, the Gode's $70 extra comes from his increased priestly specialty. If you don't feel the $70 added cost for an extra priest level is worth it, just build Jarls. Godes are a more specialized unit, and specialty units tend to have a cost above that of what you might consider to be their actual value added, because otherwise, you'd only produce those.

A better answer, thanks. Looking at other nations, it seems that the diff between H2 and H3 is valued at 50g. That would put mountain survival at 20g (pricey), and you just get screwed out of 1 strength and 25 leadership. Because of all this, I would think the Gode would more fairly be valued at, say, 180.

Comments?

[General Tacticus]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Arralen:
+1 holy = 1/2 upkeep

You're thinking about "Sacred". Sacred units have 1/2 upkeep. Holy is a simply the priest level, and doesn't affect upkeep. Both the Gode and Jarl are already sacred.

Basically, the Gode's $70 extra comes from his increased priestly specialty. If you don't feel the $70 added cost for an extra priest level is worth it, just build Jarls. Godes are a more specialized unit, and specialty units tend to have a cost above that of what you might consider to be their actual value added, because otherwise, you'd only produce those.

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I think he meant that since both are sacred, both have costs that are higher than non sacred units with the same stats, and an increase in stats is more expensive than for non-sacred units. Since in this case the increase is holy+1, which only happens to sacred units, it costs the same for everybody anyway...

I'd also argue that a physically strong unit (like a giant) should pay more than usual for additional abilities than a weak non armored human. Yes, they already paid for that strength, but strength (and durability) on your priest opens up new possibilities, like casting from (near) the frontlines.

And to answer someone else, holy 3 (and sermon of courage) is a quite a valuable tool. Sure, you can do without, but when I play regular Ulm for example, I miss it : you have to put a little more troops on the line in long fights, or see your troops flee from a battle they would have won It also open up holy 4 for your prophet, with Divine Blessing and Fanaticism, and even one commander with those can make a lot of difference. It should be expensive.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Arryn:

quote:

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Originally posted by Arralen:
try playing a nation with holy 2 priests only.

You mean such as R'lyeh? I do it all the time.

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*snicker*

I'm guessing you don't play a lot of R'lyeh, then, because they have perfectly fine, if horribly expense, Holy-3 priests. Did you mean, oh, say, Ulm, or Man?

[Arryn]

[quote]Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Arryn:

Originally posted by Arralen:
[qb]try playing a nation with holy 2 priests only.

I'm guessing you don't play a lot of R'lyeh, then, because they have perfectly fine, if horribly expense, Holy-3 priests. Did you mean, oh, say, Ulm, or Man?

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Urk, how embarrasing. Yes, I do play a lot of R'lyeh. I just had a major brain cramp and completely forgot about the 150g Starspawn priest. (I tend to only use them only in the gate, and use 50g land priests for regular duties.)

Since my R'lyeh strategies tend to involve using lots of summoned critters (void, trolls, angels, etc.) with great morale, and R'lyeh's own units lack sacreds, I don't have much call for Blessings, much less Courage.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Arryn:
Since my R'lyeh strategies tend to involve using lots of summoned critters (void, trolls, angels, etc.) with great morale, and R'lyeh's own units lack sacreds, I don't have much call for Blessings, much less Courage.

Yeah, and if you're using units like Shambler Thralls or Lobo Guards....courage, schmourage. Aren't mindless, unbreakable cannon fodder units great?

And how *DO* you use the land priests to build your temples underwater? That's certainly an important thing to have, since Underwater provinces often border many land provinces, and are therefore potentially attacked by the dominions of those land provinces....and can attack them. Plus, being underwater means they're less likely to be razed. Do you actually go through the trouble of forging a waterbreathing thing to use the land priests underwater?

[ February 06, 2004, 01:26: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Yeah, and if you're using units like Shambler Thralls or Lobo Guards....courage, schmourage. Aren't mindless, unbreakable cannon fodder units great?

Yep. I don't use the lobos, but the shamblers are handy.

And how *DO* you use the land priests to build your temples underwater? Do you actually go through the trouble of forging a waterbreathing thing to use the land priests underwater?

Quite simple. I don't build temples underwater. I tend to expand on to land pretty quickly. I send one SS priest to build an initial land temple, and from then on I make land priests for temple-raising or preaching. Another tactic is to make a lab on land, summon a holy-endowed critter such as a Harbinger or Angel, and let them do what is necessary for the sacred cause. I build temples to push dominion, and I generally don't need to push dom at sea. The temples are most effective for my purposes right up against my enemies, and they're almost all land-based, and usually inland.

[General Tacticus]

Originally posted by Arryn:
Yep. I don't use the lobos, but the shamblers are handy. Quite simple. I don't build temples underwater. I tend to expand on to land pretty quickly. I send one SS priest to build an initial land temple, and from then on I make land priests for temple-raising or preaching. Another tactic is to make a lab on land, summon a holy-endowed critter such as a Harbinger or Angel, and let them do what is necessary for the sacred cause. I build temples to push dominion, and I generally don't need to push dom at sea. The temples are most effective for my purposes right up against my enemies, and they're almost all land-based, and usually inland.

Angels and Harbingers are a good way along the research tree, by the time you get them you probably don't need them as much. One way or another, by that time, you probably have unbreakable summons/ high morale units / standard bearers / overwhelming numbers...