Black Company Mod

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
Having powerful heroes isn't necessarily a balance problem. You need luck to get them & luck as a scale is kinda weak. I doubt anyone would claim Tien Chi to be overpowered since they have immortal heroes with good magics and special abilities.

Ahem. The immortal hero units proposed for the Black Company mod are incredibly more powerful than the weaklings T'ien C'hi gets. Reread the first post. We are talking hero units with magic skills usually only seen on pretender gods (8/1, 4/4), and, if they are to be anywhere near faithful to the Black Company novels, very high hitpoints, defense, and protection as well. And possibly regeneration.

Basically, it corresponds to giving the player 0-3 extra non-customisable pretender gods through luck.

And then there are the RECRUITABLE immortal Taken mages (good magic, high leadership, high hitpoints &etc) with 3 unholy priest levels as well. They may not be able to fly like Spring and Autumn's Celestial Master, but that is most likely the only area where T'ien C'hi can beat them.

[Teraswaerto]

I though only "Soulcatcher" would be immortal, or are all the heroes immortal? Anyway, how was the skill level of fire 8 determined? I haven't read the books in question, but in Dom having 3 in one path makes one a "master" of that path, and a King of Elemental Fire has 4, and that's as high as it gets except on a pretender.

The Jotun hero Angerboda has something like 3 astral, 3 death, 3 blood and 2 nature, so having 4/4 isn't that huge. The 3 unholy doesn't make much difference, since it isn't synergistic with anything. If the hero spends his/her time raising the dead all his/her other powers are wasted.

If they're all immortal it's a bit trickier, I admit.

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

I modeled my recruitable Taken off of Wraith Lords: immortal, undead, mage-generals. Stats as of now:

hp 30, st 15, enc 0, att 13, def 13, prec 13, mr 15, mor 15, fear 1, regen 10, gcost 300, fire/unholy 4/3, standard 20, immortal, undead. Expertleader, okmagicleader, goodundeadleader.

A big difference tween WL and Taken are Taken are not Ethereal, but have better armor (black steel full plate, helmet, shield). Taken have a mace, while WL have Bane Blades. WL have more hits. Taken have unholy 3--which is a big change, and one I am observing the effects of.

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

All the heroes are immortal, as are all the recruitable Taken. 4 heroes. The recruitable Taken are roughly equivalent to Wraith Lords. I may have to scale them down a bit, or make them more expensive, but I am watching that in my sample games.

I made some major additions Last night: Soulcatcher and her Soul Gatherer stealthy assassin minions. I haven't had a chance yet to try them out, but they could add a few layers of complexity to the mod.

Right now, you play and play and you hope and you hope for one of those heroes to pop up. Until at least one does, you are at a severe disadvantage compared to the other nations. Or at least that is how it appears to me so far. It could be that a different style of play would do better.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Uh-Nu-Buh:
I modeled my recruitable Taken off of Wraith Lords: immortal, undead, mage-generals. Stats as of now:

hp 30, st 15, enc 0, att 13, def 13, prec 13, mr 15, mor 15, fear 1, regen 10, gcost 300, fire/unholy 4/3, standard 20, immortal, undead. Expertleader, okmagicleader, goodundeadleader.

A big difference tween WL and Taken are Taken are not Ethereal, but have better armor (black steel full plate, helmet, shield). Taken have a mace, while WL have Bane Blades. WL have more hits. Taken have unholy 3--which is a big change, and one I am observing the effects of.

Another big difference would be the regen 10 on the Taken, and the fact that they only cost 300 gold as opposed to the 40 death gems [and one turn action from a good death leader] you need for Wraith Lords.

Niefel Jarls, the most individually powerful recruitable leaders at this time, cost 500 gold - and while they have twice the hitpoints of your Taken, they are neither immortal nor do they regenerate.

Double the cost to 600d, or set it to 666d as that seems appropriate to their level of strength

At a mere 300d, I could see myself buying almost exclusively Taken, equipping them with Dragon Helmet/Fire Scale to give them protection from fire, a reinvigoration item or two, and orders to bLast away. Hey, they have precision 13, which is unheard off in fire mages elsewhere, so why not use it to the fullest.

[ February 22, 2004, 13:15: Message edited by: Peter Ebbesen ]

[Bossemanden]

I think the recruitable Taken should be changed to a theme-specific summons spell ala vampire count for Ulm Black Forest. The reasoning is that the Taken cant be bought but must be Taken through magical means.

Maybe prereq: Death 3 and Astral 3 (based on the description of the Taking of Whisper in the first book).
Cost should be in the order of 40-50 gems of either Death or Astral gems.

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

I am not convinced Taken are disproportionate to the mod as a whole. There are no good researchers in this mod. That means that even with powerful magic Users, you don't get powerful spells. Early game, you are scrambling to stay alive vs. the faster starters. Mid-game you have a few ok spells like flare and fire-spark, but although the high precision makes these spells more puissant than normal, they are still low level spells. Late-game, you are really hurting due to the lack of research. Everyone else is going to be doing the big powerful spells, while the Black Empire will still be doing low to mid level spells--just a lot more of them.

I'm glad you brought up Niefel Jarls. I was trying to come up with a cross between them and Wraith Lords. I think I succeeded! I might have to raise their cost a slight amount, and I might lower their priestly power, but otherwise I think I got it right. I hope to release the module to the public sometime this week with the largest of the play balance issues worked out (so I don't embarrass myself too much). At that time you can try it out and let me know!

Right now, in one game, I am in turn 30, no heroes yet, but half and half Black Captains and Taken as commanders. I am finding the Forvalaka to be overly powerful. The Limper Infantry is about right on, now that I have increased their armor and cost. The Black Infantry has surprised me with its efficacy. Despite their low Pro of 6, they seem to really kick butt. A small screen of Limper Infantry and a large number of Black Infantry really seems to do the trick.

Strategically, the Limper Infantry is a problem. Their movement of 1/7 means getting them to the fight is hard work. Once they get there however, they do the job.

The Forvalaka move 3/30, and they are a pleasure to use. Their Pro of 5 means they die fairly quickly, which is good since they are inhumanly powerful infighters. Sorta like magical berserkers. I am going to scale their attacks back a bit as they seem too dangerous. Archers should pincushion them, but haven't run into many of those. Knights and heavy cav should also be efficacious with their lances.