Light Infantry... what the ****

[Vicious Love]

Methinks the LI of such nations as Machaka and Mictlan would be made a lot more cost effective if the "fire and stay behind troops" or "fire and flee to one region/the same region if victorious" suggestions were implemented.
Couple that with skirmishing, and you've got a troop type every bit as a viable as heavy infantry, but with substantially different capabilities and tactical/strategic roles. You might not even have to tweak the AI's propensity for stocking up on the little bastards.

Update: Besides, it's about time we had some guerilla tactics beyond driveby priestings, strikes behind enemy lines, and funky mage combos. And consistent use of these tactics/their countertactics could add a whole new meaning to battlefield mobility, maybe give light cavalry another two of their RL roles back(Either fire and flee or mow down whoever tries to flee).

C'mon, this game isn't nearly complex enough at the moment.

[ April 15, 2004, 12:13: Message edited by: Vicious Love ]

[Jasper]

[quote]Originally posted by Daynarr:

The problem with castles was already discussed and the main problem seems to be that its hard to make rules on how would AI decide to build his castles. I would suggest discussing this in another thread since its pretty large topic and it wouldn't be good if this one loses focus on current issue.

I think a simple heuristic would go a long way: If the AI doesn't have enough resources to acheive a force mix dominated by heavy units, it should build castles instead of an army of LI. Or put another way, limit the percentage of available gold that will be spent on light units, and spend left over money on things other than troops.

This relatively closely approximates what I do. Some work would be involved in marking a factions units into appropriate catagories, but that should be straight forward.

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Pocus:
Accruing fatigue from terrain throughout the battle seems to be more realistic compared to receiving an allocation of fatigue at start of battle. Moreover a relief spell cast at start would render the rule even less plausible, whereas the added fatigue rule would not be as easily circumvented.
Thats all IMHO anyway.

I disagree, IMHO of course. Accruing fatigue faster during a battle implies that the field is covered in rough terrain -- which rare if ever happened.

On the other hand, marching troops for long distances was exhausting -- even without rough terrain. Ancient military strategists describe the danger of fighting with already exhausted troops, and apparently took it seriously.

[Vicious Love]

Ooooh, feel the realism.
Next patch, let's implement camp followers!

Update: Or at least pneumonia. Throw me a bone here.

[ April 15, 2004, 12:17: Message edited by: Vicious Love ]

[Firebreath]

Camp followers?

Camp hoes you mean

I'm sure they'd give a nice morale boost before any battle.

[JaydedOne]

Wasn't there some talk about units orderd to retreat shouldn't spread out over neighbouring provinces any more but should stay with your army if you actually win the fight?

Boy, if that's something that could be implemented without moving mountains, I'd be all for it. That would considerably change my strategy involving those units -- to where I might actually, say, use them.

[Chris Byler]

Provinces with terrain should place obstacles on the battlefield. Bogs, underbrush, rocks, etc. (Farmland isn't much of an obstruction unless it's rice fields - or maybe in late summer/early autumn.) Any unit that moves through an obstacle suffers fatigue equal to its base fatigue (possibly limited to once per turn if it moves through several obstacles) and may cost extra movement points too. Any unit that fights while standing in an obstacle suffers 50% more fatigue. Appropriate survival abilities eliminate these penalties.

Jasper, if I have an army of C'tissian light infantry against your Ulmish heavy infantry, the battlefield damned well *will* be entirely swampy if I have anything to do with it. If we are fighting in a swamp province it shouldn't be that hard to arrange. Realistically, the more mobile units will get to pick the battleground.

Battles being fought on fields with rough terrain were rare in medieval European history because both sides were led by heavy cavalry. Nobody wanted to fight in a swamp. But the Gallic wars were another matter - skirmishes in the woods were common and the Gauls did well in them despite their lighter equipment. This is partly semantic - such engagements weren't *called* "battles", but men killed in them were just as dead.

An example from _De Bello Gallico_ (trans. McDevitte and Bohn):

Ambiorix, when he observed this, orders the command to be issued that they throw their weapons from a distance and do not approach too near, and in whatever direction the Romans should make an attack, there give way (from the lightness of their appointments and from their daily practice no damage could be done them); [but] pursue them when betaking themselves to their standards again. Which command having been most carefully obeyed, when any cohort had quitted the circle and made a charge, the enemy fled very precipitately. In the mean time, that part of the Roman army, of necessity, was left unprotected, and the weapons received on their open flank. Again, when they had begun to return to that place from which they had advanced, they were surrounded both by those who had retreated and by those who stood next them; but if, on the other hand, they wish to keep their place, neither was an opportunity left for valor, nor could they, being crowded together, escape the weapons cast by so large a body of men.

Wouldn't it be good if Dom2 light infantry could fight like that? (Of course, the Romans generally routed the Gauls in open field engagements, and Dom2 reflects that fine. But there's more to a war than open field engagements.)

And if light infantry had 1-2 points more defense, average heavy infantry might start to tire before they had already killed 3 times their own numbers and routed the rest (elite or experienced heavy infantry would still do well against average LI, but elites are expensive and experience takes time to acquire).