If you could create a unit...

[Wauthan]

Sorry Mr Duran but you're quite correct. The descriptions I jolted down are from my "designer notes" so they reflect what I want rather than what is. I try to set the critters up in such a way that their lack of elemental weakness balances out. I guess I should have chosen my words a bit better.

I've been thinking about releasing an "Avatar" mod with my altered Pretenders but sort of felt really silly when I examined my mod more critically. It's not a mod that would actually add something to the community, since the current Pretenders have been so carefully tuned.

And to make matters worse I'm using graphics from other games, "abandoned" as though they may be (graphics have all been available free on the web) I'm fairly sure that Illwinter can't host them due to copyright issues. I guess I could zip the unit tgas I created and send them to one of the fansites so other modders can have a go at them. But whom would want to host something like that?

[delacroix]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
Hate 'ta do this to you, but Medusa is already Pangaea's national pretender

fair enough . But it has wings and snake hair as the more traditional Greek representation of the Gorgon... boooo hehe. The developers also implement petrification as a fear effect and not the ability to literally turn to stone [to my knowledge at least]. Lastly there is no unique ability for shielded units to avoid that petrification like in the tale of Perseus & Medusa.

So while the units do have the same name, they function differently in terms of abilities / use / rarity (pretender vs. common troop).

Besides, my Version of the Medusa would have the more mainstream, snake-body with snake hair appearance (no wings) .

Oh and BTW, nice job on the orcs hehe. I was going to say there is a surprising lack of greenskin type race in the game, but then I remembered there's some nations that have reptilian type creatures that are green . But it still feels like there is no 'greenskin' race to me, so the orcs fill a nice void there. I seem to differentiate between green-reptiles and 'greenskin' lol.

[ April 15, 2004, 19:59: Message edited by: delacroix ]

[HotNifeThruButr]

*cough Vaettir cough cough*

I was actually surprised that they had no technological race with at least crude fire arms (cannons or arquebuses).

Actually, Ulm's kinduva tech race.

And in closing, I would like to say: My might cannot be matched.

edit: Adding to Orcs

Note: Serrated weapons give less penalties to but decreases chances to afflictions to +20%

Note: Orcs designated to Fists are often more savage and barbaric than their more civilized brothers in Chests so they bonuses to Pillage, like barbarians while Chest warriors get bonuses to patrol. Both are not as good in the other role though.

Orc Ripper

Cost: 12 gold, 18 resources

Abilities: -3 def, +3 atk, -1 morale, +1 effect in pillage, -1 effect in patrol

Equipment:

Serrated longsword: 5 dam, 0 atk, -1 def, 3 length
Jagged dagger: 1 dam, 0 atk, 0 def, 1 length
Crude Partial Armor: 7 prot, -1 atk, -2 def, 2 enc

Desc: Rippers are the least honored warriors of an Orc Fist. While just as aggressive and barbaric as the other Fist warriors, Rippers are on foot because they can't learn to ride well. They are often employed by commanders who are short on gold because they're also cheaper than the rest of the Fist.

[ April 15, 2004, 23:29: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ]

[mivayan]

fair enough . But it has wings and snake hair as the more traditional Greek representation of the Gorgon... boooo hehe. The developers also implement petrification as a fear effect and not the ability to literally turn to stone [to my knowledge at least]. Lastly there is no unique ability for shielded units to avoid that petrification like in the tale of Perseus & Medusa.

Anything trying to attack the Medusa in close combat gets petrified (instant death), unless it succeeds a magic resistance check. It is a very cute ability and would make the medusa great if it was not wimpy enough to sometimes die from a few lucky militia. The unique shield the Aegis does the same thing.

[Kristoffer O]

Medusa is a gorgon. One of three sisters, IIRC the other two sisters did not petrify onlookers. I only remember the names of one of the other sisters at the moment, Euryale.

Edit: this was written by JO. I didn't notice Kristoffer was logged in.

[ April 16, 2004, 15:37: Message edited by: Kristoffer O ]

[Karacan]

So, I happened to have a book titled Deep Thoughts in my hands and stumbled across the following passage...

Contrary to what most people say, the most dangerous animal in the world is not the lion or the tiger or even the elephant. It's a shark riding on an elephant's back, just trampling and eating everything they see.

There's my unit.


All hail Jack Handey.

[delacroix]

Originally posted by mivayan:
Anything trying to attack the Medusa in close combat gets petrified (instant death), unless it succeeds a magic resistance check.

ahh I did not notice that with my in-combat watching of the Medusa pretender . (Well I probably figured a unit died due to the claws or snake hair). Though like you said it is a somewhat fragile melee fighter at times which I noticed moreso hehe. Thanks for the heads up on that one .

Medusa is a gorgon. One of three sisters, IIRC the other two sisters did not petrify onlookers. I only remember the names of one of the other sisters at the moment, Euryale.

For some background info if anyone was interested and it piqued their curiosity, a summary about the Gorgons from Hesiod's Shield of Herakles :

"Their names were Stheno, Euryale and the third was Medousa, the only mortal one: thus it was her head that Perseus was sent to bring back. The Gorgones' heads were entwined with the horny scales of serpents, and they had big tusks like hogs, bronze hands, and wings of gold on which they flew. All who looked at them were turned to stone".

Actually there is another Version of the story that says the Gorgons had the ability to turn to stone anything that the gorgon looked at, versus 'anyone that looked upon the gorgon was turned to stone'. The latter is Hesiod's interpretation. So there are some interesting variations to the story. But, unless there is yet another Version (which would be less popular), I would assume all gorgons had the ability to stone, and not just Medusa .

*****


But the reasoning for my medusa unit was to add a melee unit that influenced the enemy shield vs. non-shield army composition (without ranged fire nor armor being a factor). A melee unit that could easily eliminate non-shielded units, yet at the same time be very ineffectual vs. shielded units. Which I find there to be a lack of melee units that are so extreme in effectivess in regards to shields. The actual name of the unit or exact abilities don't particularly have a huge degree of significance for me, as long as it's semi-logical. Hence why I picked medusa as the name, since everyone recognizes at least the turn to stone part of it, and may identify shields as a way to bypass the petrification.

Thats why I like trample units; they creates a unique size vs. size matchup. Or the poison inflicting, poison resistant army. Also like the concept of the machaka spider due to their web entangle ability. Same with HotNife's catapult unit he posted earlier in the thread, unique from most other units present in the game. Units with unique abilities are more alongside my preferences, but maybe not everyone elses preferences.

I like the fact that most nations/themes have a unique flavour to them and play out differently, just wish some units of a particular theme had some different strengths and weaknesses while keeping with the idea of the theme as well. Many are well done, but there are a couple themes like normal themed Ulm which is a notorious example of cookie-cutter units (barring commanders). I wouldn't mind for Ulm to have all generic infantry if 1 ulm infantry was decent against large enemy monsters (immune to trample), 1 infantry good against enemy archers (maybe an inherent air shield, or less armor + faster speed to reach enemy archers faster = higher risk of death when meeting enemy HI instead), 1 infantry good against cavalry, etc. And Ulm would still be a primary infantry theme with magical weaknesses, but now rather than building 1 or 2 types of infantry exclusively maybe 4-6 become feasible depending on the enemy army composition.