Humanoid Pretenders are too expensive

[PDF]

As a player preferring to play RBs from personal taste, I'm more and more reluctant to use them, because their so-called "advantages" end up being very much ineffective...
The high RP is an initial advantage, but doesn't compete with the initial advantages of SC in conquering indies;
The site search is slow and a 6+ path RBs hasn't a so big advantage over a 2 or 3 paths pretender + a couple national mages (except for Ulm, granted )
The "rainbowness" isn't that useful in casting or forging, because you have a *weak* level in all paths, and for the non-national paths you've to have the RB forges himself boosting items... For the other you are not (and often less ...) powerful than the national mages so they can do the work themselves !
On the downside, having 10 hp makes a pretender very fragile, be it to seeking arrow, early disease (never caught that on the initial search runs on turn 10 ? ), assassins etc...

I don't even think the human mages can be made to compete with VQ, Moloch etc : they should have "useful" and colourful/unique abilities, to make them fun to play.
But mainly, gameplay-wise, they should be meant to allow players to have a CHEAP pretender and spend points on dominion, scales and castle.

So they need to be significantly cheaper : somthing like 0-20 points, dominion 2, and starting with either 2 or 3 level-1 or 2 paths, plus a nice ability for each "chassis".
In the end you'll have more or less the same guys, but costing some 80 points less, enough for 2 scales tips or a nice castle (Wiz Tower being appropriate )

[Cainehill]

Maybe scratch or at least redo all the current humanoid pretenders, to give them some abilities that might be attractive throughout the game.

Example of a touchup job: The Great Druid might get a 10% bonus to all nature conjurations, possibly forging nature items as well. Then he might be viable - saving 10% of the gems on big summonings is valuable throughout the game.

Likewise the Great Alchemist - let him transmute one type of gem to another at a 3 for 2 ratio. All of a sudden, he might be useful for Ulm, because any unwanted death, air, etc, gems could be more efficiently transformed into fire and earth.

The Great Sage: Presumably he might better direct the studies of _all_ his researchers, so each in his dominion gets +1 research ability, regardless of scales. Useful throughout the game, possibly even for Ulm or other Drain setups.

A new humanoid: Summoner. 20% bonus on all summoning spells (or possibly, raise his effective level by 1 for all summonings, allowing him to cast spells he otherwise couldn't, and get extra summoned critters on some spells.)

Another: Necromancer, who could be given some minor bonus to death spells, always has a skeleton by his side.

Great Diviner: A master of divination, he has discovered the secrets to Godhood itself. 10% bonus to all divining spells (Auspex, Dark Knowledge, even Akashic Record), minimum -1 reduction on spell cost.

The Great Warlord: A master of the art of war, his presence inspires armies to greatness. The only thing left to conquer is Godhood. (Give him extra hitpoints and combat skill, make magic paths cost 20 or 30 instead of 10, but he gives _all_ friendly troops +1 morale, attack, and defense when he is on the field of battle. Or all troops get one of those bonuses throughout his empire.)

The Grand Enchanter: Troops created in a province he is in have enchanted weapons (+1 attack + damage, considered magic).

Again, my idea is to give human pretenders thematic bonuses that might actually be useful throughout the game, where right now their "bonuses" are limitted to the start of the game.

For instance : Great Druid's extra Vine Men / Ogres? Possibly useful in the early game, if your fortress is besieged and you can't recruit, so you switch him to summoning Vines. Otherwise, even in the early game, you waste his research by summoning, and late game, vine critters are useless.

Great Sage or Enchantress : The initial research bonus is nice, likewise the astral gem per turn. As the game goes on though, you have enough researchers, enough sources of gems, that the bonus ceases to be relevant.

Some of these are probably unbalanced right now. But, heh! Less unbalanced than the VQs.

[ May 04, 2004, 17:31: Message edited by: Cainehill ]

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by SelfishGene:
... as would a 50' tall naked woman with breasts the size of cars.

Are you sure you are playing Dominions ?

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by PDF:

But mainly, gameplay-wise, they should be meant to allow players to have a CHEAP pretender and spend points on dominion, scales and castle.

They are meant to:
- Have low inpact on the people of their lands (low dominion).
- Less magical power than mythological beings attuned to one or two paths.
- Have great magical versatility.
- Be good researchers.

The latter two comes from cheap paths.

The usefulness of magical versatility is perhaps reduced by the low opportunity cost of site searching spells.

Additional powers are always fun. However, if made too powerful they tend to result in less variety.

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
They are meant to:
- Have low inpact on the people of their lands (low dominion).
- Less magical power than mythological beings attuned to one or two paths.
- Have great magical versatility.
- Be good researchers.

The latter two comes from cheap paths.

The usefulness of magical versatility is perhaps reduced by the low opportunity cost of site searching spells.

Additional powers are always fun. However, if made too powerful they tend to result in less variety.

Perhaps an easy solution would be to have either A.) Human pretenders give a total nationwide research bonus. B.) A Provincial Research Bonus or C.) Always count as researching even when doing other activities.

I don't see it inconcievable for mages of the highest order are constantly studying even while on the road or forging.

[SelfishGene]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

quote:

---

Originally posted by SelfishGene:
... as would a 50' tall naked woman with breasts the size of cars.

Are you sure you are playing Dominions ?

---

Seen the Great Mother lately?

Basically imo just cut 25 points off the cost of every human pretender; i.e., the Crone should be 0. I think that would be a fine start, and other adjustments could always be made later.

[ May 05, 2004, 01:55: Message edited by: SelfishGene ]

[PDF]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

quote:

---

Originally posted by PDF:

But mainly, gameplay-wise, they should be meant to allow players to have a CHEAP pretender and spend points on dominion, scales and castle.

They are meant to:
- Have low inpact on the people of their lands (low dominion).
- Less magical power than mythological beings attuned to one or two paths.
- Have great magical versatility.
- Be good researchers.

The latter two comes from cheap paths.

The usefulness of magical versatility is perhaps reduced by the low opportunity cost of site searching spells.

Additional powers are always fun. However, if made too powerful they tend to result in less variety.

---

No problem with your design choices (you're the Boss !), so let the mages have low dominion and easy path access, as they are now.
BUT as they are now, their cost for their magical versatility is *seriously* excessive compared to the advantages you get from it : see the point cost comparison with other pretenders (and see how noone plays them in competitive MP except by "house rules").
So let's keep them mostly as they are with their weak powers BUT make them cheap(er) : base cost 0-20, 2-3 paths-1 at start. And I really think Immortality would make them more popular, because the death penalty is really a killer on RBs, and in addition they get killed so easily..
Then they will be a resonable choice for a player wanting to have a cheap pretender/high scales.

For the moment only the immobiles are OK for that(heck, with 31 points you get a quite useful Astral-5 Oracle or Blood-5 FoB with dom-5 - that's not even the base cost of a no-magic dom-1 mage !!)