Dev Thinking on Balance?

[Kristoffer O]

Hmm, that was a lot of Posts in a single day. Suppose it is a matter close to the heart of many a good player.

My current thoughts:
Clam. Overpowered particulary in large games where there are players that are not prepared for it.

Clam hoarding: boring. One shouldn't have to prevent people from doing it.

Vampire Queen. A recent complaint compared to the clam. I have not yet formed my own opinion on it. Bayushi Tasogare made a good point about the early expansion. In the late game I would say that it makes a lousy SC. It might be used as a 'super mage' in the late game, but I'm not sure if this is how it is used. Equipment on an immortal is sort of pointless, but buffing and combat magic can be used to good results.

There are counters, but it might be that they are too few or too obscure for most players. Perhaps someone should make a 'Slay the Queen' article.

One final note. Stop picking on the betas, pick on us instead. Most betas on this forum are rather new. They have had little to do with the balancing of the game. I'm the real culprit (or JK).

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Catquiet:
The White Bull does very well at early expansion. The problem with the VQ is that she can go into battle without equiping any items, take a large chunk out of an elite endgame army and be ready to fight on the next turn even if they manage to kill her.

Why doesn't anyone complain about the Phoenix. A 10 Fire 4 Air Phoenix commands vast powers of annihilation. It is also flying and immortal. I believe this is the main problem. No risk of loosing your pretender combined with mobility and destructive powers. But you can only be at one place at a time.

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:

quote:

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No offense intended to beta testers but thier opinions are not the end all of knowing knowledge

If you think about it, a beta-tester is almost certain to deny an alleged imbalance. If he agreed, then the imbalance would have been eliminated in the beta-testing.

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Not the case at all. Most of my discussion around dominions 2 has been about various inbalances. This continues to be the case, and I don't think dominions is as balanced as many others apparently do.

It just happens that I think that clams and Vampire Queens are not problems.

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Bayushi Tasogare:
The advantage of the VQ is one of increased early expansion, from my viewpoint. IMO, any change to the VQ should be done to counteract this advantage.

Bayushi Tasogare

I disagree. The Vampire Queen is hardly alone in being able to do this, and in fact there are pretenders that can start conquering immediately.

[Catquiet]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

quote:

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Originally posted by Catquiet:
The White Bull does very well at early expansion. The problem with the VQ is that she can go into battle without equiping any items, take a large chunk out of an elite endgame army and be ready to fight on the next turn even if they manage to kill her.

Why doesn't anyone complain about the Phoenix. A 10 Fire 4 Air Phoenix commands vast powers of annihilation. It is also flying and immortal. I believe this is the main problem. No risk of loosing your pretender combined with mobility and destructive powers. But you can only be at one place at a time.

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The Phoenix does it's damage with spells and you know those spells are going to be either fire or lightning, new paths are too expensive for anything else. Low HPs and few item slots means there is no way to turn it into a supercombatant. Put a strong fighter in an elemental hauberk and you can take out the phoenix. The phoenix is fine as it is.

The Vampire Queen can have 30 protection, quickness, 18+ attack and defense, damage shields, and immunity to all elemental damage without any equipment at all. Add an armor piercing life drain attack which heals HPs + restores fatigue whenever she damages an enemy and you have an enemy that regains health faster than you can damage her. The VQ is not a game breaker but she does give more power for the points than any other pretender.

Raising the path cost of the VQ to 80 would be the simplest solution.

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Why doesn't anyone complain about the Phoenix. A 10 Fire 4 Air Phoenix commands vast powers of annihilation. It is also flying and immortal. I believe this is the main problem. No risk of loosing your pretender combined with mobility and destructive powers. But you can only be at one place at a time.

The phoenix is alot more vulnerable, can't use items, is less flexible, and less potent for the cost. The phoenix is much more of a budget entry into fire and air magic than a supercombatant. IMHO Vampire queens fill a substantially different roll, and are in general more usefull.

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Catquiet:
The Vampire Queen can have 30 protection, quickness, 18+ attack and defense, damage shields, and immunity to all elemental damage without any equipment at all. Add an armor piercing life drain attack which heals HPs + restores fatigue whenever she damages an enemy and you have an enemy that regains health faster than you can damage her. The VQ is not a game breaker but she does give more power for the points than any other pretender.

IMHO you exaggerate your case. How are you getting 18+ attack and defense without equipment? How do you manage to cast invulnerability, quickness, several damage shields, and 3 elemental immunities?

Even then, what you describe isn't so incredibly potent (nor even IMHO the best way to field a VQ).
Other pretenders easily surpase this power, in particular due to much higher hitpoints, double her strength, and better attack/defense.

The VQ queen's strength isn't her brutishness, but rather her flexibility. Regeneration, enc 0, cold immunity, poison immunity, immortal, ethereal, flying, and stealthy.