Dev Thinking on Balance?

[Catquiet]

Originally posted by Zen:

quote:

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Originally posted by Catquiet:
Does this mean you are going to address clam hoarding in a patch or not?

Steroids : an unfair advantage for the althetes who use them

Steroid Use : dangerous unhealthly. One shouldn't have to prevent people from doing it. (but I doubt they are going to stop unless the people in charge do something)

2x4: A common building material used in many forms of construction for various structures and items.

2x4 Use: Some people use 2x4's to hit people, preferably in the knees or back. The makers of 2x4's should implement something to stop them since they arn't going to stop themselves.

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Let's have a boxing match, you can use steroids, I'll bring a 2x4

But it won't be an official match, because there are rules against both of those things in boxing. That's why it's considered a sport instead of a felony.

[ May 04, 2004, 22:28: Message edited by: Catquiet ]

I didn't know Dominions 2 was boxing. I thought it was more like a street brawl with up to 16 other people. He who lives wins.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Zen:
2x4 Use: Some people use 2x4's to hit people, preferably in the knees or back. The makers of 2x4's should implement something to stop them since they arn't going to stop themselves.

MWAHAHAHA! That's a good one, Zen!

*whomps Catquiet in the back of the head with a 2x4*

[Zapmeister]

MWAHAHAHA! That's a good one, Zen!

I disagree, since no point has been made.

Steroids have a useful purpose, and no-one is suggesting that we stop making them. 2x4s have a useful purpose, and no-one is suggesting that we stop making them.

Steroids may be abused to cheat at sport, and you'll get punished if you're caught doing it. 2x4s may be abused to assault people, and you'll get punished if you're caught doing it.

So what? We should continue to fight crime by all means possible, including removing the means to commit crime, where possible. Nerfing clams is possible.

You asked for their thinking, they gave it to you. Did you want to ask a different question? Or were you just unhappy with their answer?

[Zapmeister]

Perhaps because I live in Australia, most of the traffic here occurs while I'm asleep, and it is with some dismay that on waking I find that the thread has turned into exactly the kind of flamefest that it was not intended to be. Naive of me, perhaps.

However, the original question has been answered (thanks Kristoffer) and for anyone who hasn't seen it buried somewhere on page 3 or 4, it was that the alleged imbalance with clams may be addressed, but the VQ probably won't.

So then, the raison d'etre for this thread is no more, and if Gandalf wants to nuke it for any reason, there'll be no complaint from me

[ May 05, 2004, 02:35: Message edited by: Zapmeister ]

[Scott Hebert]

Wow, it's so heartwarming to see a dev give me a compliment. Thanks.

Now, as to the other random comments:

Flames, nuff said. Moving on.

Regarding the early expansion advantage of the VQ, I feel that she offers the fastest and best early expansion when compared against the other advantages and disadvantages of other Pretenders and other phases of the game. As pointed out, Pretenders like the White Bull and the Shedu are just as powerful early, but they suffer from a few problems the VQ doesn't. Among them is the debility to gather afflictions (thus possibly crippling them for early-expansion purposes), and a severe lack of slots for later in the game. The VQ suffers neither of these problems. (The Shedu also suffers from enforced Astral magic.)

For me, 13 of 17 players choosing the VQ for MP games shows a clear perception of imbalance (regardless of whether that imbalance exists). If all the education on this forum does not change this fact, then it's time to collect some hard data.

For example, record the percentage of VQs being played in MP games. Then, implement methods to reduce the _perceived_ imbalance of the VQ (such as explaining to people why she's not all that). Then, take another sampling of the percentage of VQs being played, normalized for the entrance rate of players into the game. That is, if in the beginning 75% of MP players play with VQs, and after methods, you still have 75% of MP players playing with VQs, it doesn't necessarily mean that the methods aren't working. The 'VQ is God' way of thinking may simply be a mode that players go through that marks their maturity in the game. That's why you need to make sure that your numbers aren't falling prey to changes in the player base.

Now, if the %age increases even after such normalization, then it seems clear that there is an imbalance issue.

When it all comes down to it, Pretender selection shares a lot of common elements with what is termed 'the metagame' in CCG circles. Dominions II shares quite a few interesting similarities with CCGs, in that the number of options you have before play begins are large enough to create a number of different strategies, all theoretically equally viable. This would suggest that taking a similar approach to solving issues of metagame balance in CCGs might work to solve these issues in Dominions II.

Anyway, just some ideas.