SCs other than the vq

Kristoffer O · #1 May 4th, 2004, 08:00 PM

??? For real ???

That's bizzare!

Pirateiam · #2 May 4th, 2004, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:
Originally posted by archaeolept:
yah, none of these other immortals stack up to the VQ, who is so extremely exploitable its a joke,and, along w/ the combo strategy of clamming and castling, actually a broken element in the game.
...

?
Select a vampire queen and put hundreds of points into her for use as a defensive force. Say death 3, air 4, fire 2, earth 2/3, water 2. Make sure to give her a full set of equipment so that she can only be killed by other SC's, and is immune to almost all magic. If your opponents start to use spells that can actually affect her such as stellar cascades, solar rays, dust to dust, and wither bones, then put 20-30 cannon fodder troops in front of her. Once your opponent's scripts wear out without targeting her they will switch to paralyze and raise skeletons, neither of which are going to kill her. Wait for your opponent's forces to rout since you won't.

Build a 300 gold castle and temple in every single province. Use the VQ to keep people from being able to invade. Push your dominion with temples while building clams from the income of previous clams. That about sums it up.

He hit the nail on the head! I am in the middle of a game right now with this exact strategy being played by CatQuiet against me. I can stop his armies with my priests but invasion is impossible and in time I will be defeated...no doubt. Would you like the file?

Norfleet · #3 May 4th, 2004, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pirateiam:
He hit the nail on the head! I am in the middle of a game right now with this exact strategy being played by CatQuiet against me. I can stop his armies with my priests but invasion is impossible and in time I will be defeated...no doubt. Would you like the file?

Pah. Of course you're losing. You're Ulm playing against SG Ermor, and you apparently aren't interested in diversifying beyond your basic priests and armies. Go figure: Ulm is naturally weak against Ermor, and rather than trying to solve the problem, you'd rather complain about it on the forums. This is not a terribly productive attitude.

His VQ can be in ONE place at a time. If you hit him in more places than he can repel you from with his VQ, he'll lose castle after castle. If you insist on hamhandedly trudging with a single army and waving in front of his face until he kills it, no wonder you lose. Even if he respawns instantly back in his capitol because you were too lazy to roll back his dominion, he has STILL lost the engagement. All YOU have to do is keep your own losses under control and consolidate your own holdings in the same way.

Alternatively, just jack his capitol. Or do I have to do *EVERYTHING* for you?

Pirateiam · #4 May 4th, 2004, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:
Originally posted by Pirateiam:
He hit the nail on the head! I am in the middle of a game right now with this exact strategy being played by CatQuiet against me. I can stop his armies with my priests but invasion is impossible and in time I will be defeated...no doubt. Would you like the file?

Pah. Of course you're losing. You're Ulm playing against SG Ermor, and you apparently aren't interested in diversifying beyond your basic priests and armies. Go figure: Ulm is naturally weak against Ermor, and rather than trying to solve the problem, you'd rather complain about it on the forums. This is not a terribly productive attitude.

His VQ can be in ONE place at a time. If you hit him in more places than he can repel you from with his VQ, he'll lose castle after castle. If you insist on hamhandedly trudging with a single army and waving in front of his face until he kills it, no wonder you lose. Even if he respawns instantly back in his capitol because you were too lazy to roll back his dominion, he has STILL lost the engagement. All YOU have to do is keep your own losses under control and consolidate your own holdings in the same way.

Alternatively, just jack his capitol. Or do I have to do *EVERYTHING* for you?

Norfleet - I will not defend my strategy. I will be the first to admit I played poorly and was not ready for Ermor SG but since you are not paying attention Abysia is also attacking me so the only thing I can really do is defend to my best abiiliy. If only I could be as great as the great Norfleet ....sigh

Jasper · #5 May 4th, 2004, 08:46 PM

Bold text originally posted by Graeme Dice:
If your opponents start to use spells that can actually affect her such as stellar cascades, solar rays, dust to dust, and wither bones, then put 20-30 cannon fodder troops in front of her. Once your opponent's scripts wear out without targeting her they will switch to paralyze and raise skeletons, neither of which are going to kill her.

I didn't think Stellar Cascades worked on those with 0 enc?

In any event, IMHO you underestimate the power of Dust to Dust and Wither Bones. Wither Bones in particular will make short work of 20-30 undead fodder.

Moreover, you are counting on opponents not casting effective spells after their scripts run out, which IMHO is not reliable.

On top of this it's fairly easy to turn something like a Gifted Crusher or Gargoyle (let alone another Pretender) into something that can slay a VQ.

Build a 300 gold castle and temple in every single province. Use the VQ to keep people from being able to invade. Push your dominion with temples while building clams from the income of previous clams. That about sums it up.

IMHO this is not sufficient to magically keep people from invading.

[ May 04, 2004, 19:46: Message edited by: Jasper ]

Jasper · #6 May 4th, 2004, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pirateiam:
...I will not defend my strategy. I will be the first to admit I played poorly and was not ready for Ermor SG...

Actually, you've been complaining that it's due to the overpowered Vampire Queen, not your poor play.

If -- as you claim -- you played poorly, perhaps this is the cause of your defeat, instead of the dread power of the Vampire Queen?

Jasper · #7 May 4th, 2004, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:
Phoenix cant be used reliably as SC, the base hit points is too low.

Phoenix is splendid. 1 evoc (fire darts) is all you need. Reliability comes from immortality rather than HP.

Is this truly so effective? The odds of failling to take provinces seems too high to me, even if you don't die. Moreover, the investment necessary for the effect is great.

There are some nice tricks that actually take advantage of immortality later in the game, e.g. Cloud Trapezing hurting your foes then dying so you can immediately Cloud Trapeze again, or Phoenix Pyre. But these aren't much help during expansion, and in any event the inability to use items IMHO becomes a larger and larger liability as the game goes on.