Orcish Empire

[Boron]

Originally posted by PvK:
Actually, it's pretty easy for me to invent new unit types which are balanced, or to think of what appropriate values for new units and weapons would be compared to existing ones. That's why I've given feedback on these mods, because it seemed like maybe the authors would be interested in what seemed to me like more appropriate numbers, mainly so they make sense for what they say they are, compared to existing units.

PvK

you are a shining exeption there if i myself make mods or scenarios for any games at the beginning i am moderate but in the end it will always get imbalanced . in heroes of might and magic 3 when i made a scenario in the end most guards were packs of dragons or even azuredragons and so on .
when i wanted to spice up some fewused units in age of wonders 2 shadow magic at the end the syron lvl 4 ship and the human air ship were the most powerful lvl 4 units and the halflings centaur the most powerful lvl 3 unit . it started moderately but in the end ....

[ July 17, 2004, 01:58: Message edited by: Boron ]

[PvK]

Heh. Well I have over twenty years of gaming under my belt, and close to a year playing this game series, so that probably helps.

PvK

[Lunaticus]

Well, the Orcish empire is replacing Abysia and therefore has a default heat of 3. However the Imperial Orcs have no unit which is heat-resistant or which can really fight efficiently in heat 3.
Is this intentional?

[Norfleet]

It's possible to mod the heat preferences of the nation to something else, so the creator probably just forgot to change this.

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Boron:
the only real balanced mod so far which could be a official 18th race is really your amazon empire mod pvk but it was quite easier for you since 90% of the units / leaders you did just take from the game or ? you didn't alter any stats on the 4 tribes units / leaders ?

Have you looked at the Ashikawa (Ashikaga) mod? Apparently early Versions were quit unbalanced, but the most recent one is ... quite "balanced" in the sense that it doesn't have an advantage over 90% of the stock races / themes. (I'm in a game with nothing but modded nations, experimented with the others in play, and know I'm in for a rough time.)

Ash has enough advantages to be interesting and even playable, but several weaknesses (one of which is huge) that apply to all the theme's troops, making it very vulnerable and easy to thwart - even by indies.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Cainehill:

quote:

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Originally posted by Boron:
the only real balanced mod so far which could be a official 18th race is really your amazon empire mod pvk but it was quite easier for you since 90% of the units / leaders you did just take from the game or ? you didn't alter any stats on the 4 tribes units / leaders ?

Have you looked at the Ashikawa (Ashikaga) mod? Apparently early Versions were quit unbalanced, but the most recent one is ... quite "balanced" in the sense that it doesn't have an advantage over 90% of the stock races / themes. (I'm in a game with nothing but modded nations, experimented with the others in play, and know I'm in for a rough time.)

Ash has enough advantages to be interesting and even playable, but several weaknesses (one of which is huge) that apply to all the theme's troops, making it very vulnerable and easy to thwart - even by indies.

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i only looked briefly at that mod . i have to admit that i don't like the theme very much . it reminds me too much on shogun : total war . so i didn't seriously play them .

what i myself like quite much too is the black moon chronicles mod with the empire of lyhn and the knights of the light . i think this mod is quite balanced too .

[Nagot Gick Fel]

I apreciate the effort that was put in these two Orc mods but I must say I didn't like much of what I saw. No flame intended BTW, I hope this will only be understood as constructive criticism. I can't remember everything I've seen offhand, but these are the main points I'd change:

No priests: nice twist, I like that. Optionally you could add an unholy-1 (no more!) dark priest or priest/shaman akin to Broken Empire's Cultist.

Bad MR: nice twist again, although 9 would be OK too.

Weapons: I think I've seen too much broadswords and too much tweaked weapons. I'd use regular great clubs, mauls, axes, battleaxes, morningstars, flails and spears as primary weapons. Maybe shortbowmen too (give these an axe as a secondary weapon).

Standards and standard effects: drop them all. Add a special (and expensive) standard unit akin to Soul Gate standard legionary which causes Fear(+0) instead of boosting the morale of nearby friendly units. That seems much more thematic to me.

Morale: it's either very bad or insanely high, which seems very odd. Give 10 to regular troops, 12 or 13 to elites.

Hitpoints: way too high. Your Orcs are human-sized and thus should have physical stats akin to Ulm or Abysian standard troops. I'd give 12 to 13 HPs to most troops, base ATT of 11 and base DEF of 9.

Wolfriders: remove the trampling, it doesn't makes sense, since wolves only jump on their targets to put them off-balance, and always use their jaws as their only weapon. I can't remember if they have a bite attack, they should get one that inflicts something like 12-13 damage (no STR bonus) since the wolves have to be fairly large to be mounted by stocky orcs (IIRC standard wolves use a 2 damage bite attack and have a STR of 8).

Stealthy units: +16 seems just silly on standard troops. I'd give them all zero, possibly +10 or +20 only on one or 2 dedicated leaders.

I don't know if it's possible, but I'd try to make one of these Orc nations a replacement for Ulm, and would edit the Wolfherd so you get a special unit that can summon wolves for free from the start.

Well, that's all I can think of now since I can't even remember what the leaders look like, maybe I'll follow-up with more if you need more feedback.