upkeep

NTJedi · #1 July 15th, 2004, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
So basically your point is Trolls should be changed because of special rules or alliances you use only on XL maps? Sorry, but I find this hard to swallow.

That's not what I've been writing... my point is that trolls have an upkeep which doesn't match their true value.

Lets say I give you 100 Trolls during the start of a game... and I start with 100 Vine Ogres. I didn't even include the bonus I could get from the vine crown. Now keep in mind your Trolls are LEVEL_6 Conjuration and mine are only Level_3. If you eventually meet on day 10 for battle... you have spent almost $4000 gold on upkeep(3 died). I had an extra $4000 gold to spend on well you name it. Then your 97 Trolls fight my 97 Vine Ogres... you're trolls will almost always lose because the trolls eventually retreat and/or the $4000 gold allowed me to arrive with 5 times as many commanders you had thus more spells helping me and hurting your army.

Norfleet · #2 July 15th, 2004, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NTJedi:
Lets say I give you 100 Trolls during the start of a game... and I start with 100 Vine Ogres. I didn't even include the bonus I could get from the vine crown. Now keep in mind your Trolls are LEVEL_6 Conjuration and mine are only Level_3. If you eventually meet on day 10 for battle... you have spent almost $4000 gold on upkeep(3 died).

While I agree that troll upkeep is greatly overpriced and strongly discourages the use of trolls, I think the point you're missing here is that trolls cannot be used like Vine Ogres!

Building up a massive hoard of vine ogres is a perfectly serviceable deal, since Vine Ogres cost nothing: Trolls, however, cannot be used in such a manner. Trolls are best lobbed at the enemy in suicide assaults that hopefully take ground, or at least distract your enemies, generally because they came as byproduct of the King summonings, and you want the king, not the trolls. Kings good, trolls bad.

NTJedi · #3 July 15th, 2004, 04:59 AM

Yes I agree, the Kings are definitely good... especially the Sea Troll King.

VALENT · #4 July 15th, 2004, 09:13 AM

a small question : does the upkeep is important to play? i mean i have seen that every time i recruit units the upkeep is a little biger ( iam french and my english is not very good!!!). does i have to take care to recruit not too much units because i cannot have food?if i take some independants province i can recruit units? is that a relation between provinces,upkeep
and recruit army? what can i se this relation?
i try to understand your discussion about troll and draconian , what is the best and easy to resume for a beginner? What is the best summon for the beginner in the Ulm ( earth)
someone can help (nagot) , please?
thinks
phil

Sheap · #5 July 15th, 2004, 09:36 AM

Food and upkeep are different. Most units need food, which is called "supplies." This is calculated individually for each province. Each province has a number of supplies in it, which might be modified by growth or death scale, the size of the population and where the nearest friendly castle is. Some units don't need supplies (undead and trolls, and some summoned creatures) and some actually produce supplies. If there are more troops than supplies in the province, they starve. Starving units lose morale and get afflictions and diseases.

Upkeep is different. Upkeep is measured in gold, and it is calculated based on your whole empire. Every unit requires upkeep equal to 1/15 of its initial cost, or 1/30 of its cost if it is sacred. Most summoned units don't have any upkeep, but some (including trolls) do have upkeep. Trolls have lots of upkeep.

Rainbow · #6 July 15th, 2004, 10:09 AM

Ahem. Vine ogres against an equal number of trolls, and the trolls will break? I don't think so. More likely, the trolls will mow down the vine ogres and suffer close to zero casualties in the process.

code:

  

         Sz HP Prt Mor Mr Enc Str Att Def Pre MV

Vine Ogre 3 53  5  50  5   0  18  12   3   0 2/12 

SA: 100 PR, NNE, Mless, Frst Srvl



Troll     3 35 14  14 14   3  22  10   9   8 2/13 

SA: Regen (4), -25 FR, NNE, Mtn Srvl

As I recall, trolls use two-handed mauls, and vine ogres use fists. It's going to hurt, bad. Hurts just thinking about it.

/Rainbow

Stormbinder · #7 July 15th, 2004, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rainbow:
Ahem. Vine ogres against an equal number of trolls, and the trolls will break? I don't think so. More likely, the trolls will mow down the vine ogres and suffer close to zero casualties in the process.

Yes, Trolls are certanly stronger than Tree Ogres in equal numbers, no doubt about that. For somebody made out of wood, Tree Ogres have surprisingly thin skin, and there rest of their stats, other than hitpoints, are also unimpressive. They are very good meatshield that do not rout, but not much more.