OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
That assertion makes no sense, because obviously, Zaire does not have a great health care system if people there are leaving the country to seek their health care. Nobody goes *TO* Zaire to get treatment.

No, it simply illustrates that you can't judge whether a system works by ignoring all the cases where it doesn't. After all, that's what hius argument really is.

Canada may have a system in which people who have money go to the US to seek health care....but this just underscores the point that Canada's healthcare system, while more ubiquitous, is still of inferior quality.

I wasn't aware that the proper way to judge whether something was good was to ignore every single instance where that thing fails.

You certainly can't deny that people do this: I've known several Canadians who do this exact thing: Travel to the US to get some operation performed....at their own expense.

I won't deny that some people do this. I will still ask to see that the number of people who do this is statistically significant.

Healthcare, in whatever form, however, is not free, even in Canada. You STILL have to pay for it, but instead of paying for your OWN problems, you're ending up paying for someone ELSE's problems.

But so what really? When it comes down to it you pay less than if you weren't paying for everyone else's problems, and all of society benefits as a whole.

I don't see this as a good thing, as it certainly provides a strong disincentive for people to deal with their own personal problems.

Yes, because people don't bother to work hard when that means that they will make more money. I suppose that you also support the privatization of police forces, since only people that require them should have to pay for them.

If people have to deal with their own problems, the ones that are willing to work to overcome their issues succeed, the slackers perish. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Yep. The standard "people who fail are always lazy" fallacy of false causes.

[spirokeat]

posted by Boron

at least in europe the catholics are this way perhaps the american catholics are more moderate because they are not as dependent on the pope as the european ones and they are not the majority in the usa so they can't afford to be as arrogant as they are in europe .

Fan of the sweeping generalisation are we old bean ?

I think you will find that almost all major religions have a bloody past and to single out Catholics as having some kind of monopoly, past and present on attrocities is what's arrogant, never mind the MASSIVE insult you just curve ball'd at Europeans.

I think were I to be arsed digging up some information I would find that the US has had a fantastic record in crackpot religious cults slaughtering and generally making a nuisance of themselves in the name of God or Goverment. Lets face it, You have Bush right now, so that practically invalidates any arguement the US has for not being right at the top of psuedo-nutjob leaders list be they religious or not.


Spiro

[ July 28, 2004, 13:51: Message edited by: spirokeat ]

[Arryn]

Spirokeat,

Boron is from Germany, not the U.S., as you believe. Chastising him as if he were an American is hardly fair. He's arguably more European than you are.

[spirokeat]

You have Bush right now, so that practically invalidates any arguement the US has for not being right at the top of psuedo-nutjob leaders list be they religious or not.

Best change that to

The US has bush right now, so that practically invalidates any arguement the US has for not being right at the top of pseudo-nutjob arrogant leaders list, be they religious or not.

Spiro.

[Boron]

Originally posted by spirokeat:
Fan of the sweeping generalisation are we old bean ?

Spiro

i also posted that :

Originally posted by Boron :
so my view of the catholics is perhaps a bit biased by own expierience

and after that i declared that every group has its own black sheeps but that the catholic group has the longest and bloodiest history in doing crimes in the name of god .
my main disagree with the catholic church is the institution of the pope .
as i have stated before that is blasphemy nowhere in the bible can be found legitimation for the office of the pope .

i come from bavaria and we have here some maria worshipping sects that are really intolerant .
they are only one step away from suicide bombers . most bavarians are very intolerant .
catholic and csu-voters ( csu means christian social union , it is one of the 2 major german parties ) .
i am a confident protestant spd-voting bavarian .
with that attitude my attitude differs greatly towards the bavarian majority .
bavaria is germans most conservative country .
only with catholic csu-voters with high education you can discuss fairly but with 90% of the not so educated people discussion will follow that simple pattern :
if you say anything against csu ( they are almost like the SED in bavaria ruled from 1949 until now alone always with 50%+ majority ) they just say you are a public enemy and go to prussia if you wanna complain .
whether or not kohl is mainly responsible for our great state deficit doesn't interest them .
they simply neglect despite it is true .

Originally posted by Arryn :

Spirokeat,

Boron is from Germany, not the U.S., as you believe. Chastising him as if he were an American is hardly fair. He's arguably more European than you are.

thnx arryn

yeah britain is the sole major european country left that's not in the eu .

oh and ps : isn't britain protestant ?
henry VIII dissociated from the pope .
so i don't get why you attack me complaining about the pope ?

[ July 28, 2004, 14:12: Message edited by: Boron ]

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
On the other hand, there is at most one distinct religious belief that is true. And many Groups (not just the Catholic church) claim that theirs is it. If anyone finds this offensive, they can count on being offended rather a lot.

Untrue - there are several religions (even major ones) whose belief system doesn't exclude the validity of others. Buddhism, Hinduism - blood and bone, even the Islamic faith originally had the view that Judaism and Christianity were true religions whose worhshippers could eventually get to heaven, but that Mohammed was the Last, most authoritative prophet.

(Keep in mind that even most Muslims expect some suffering in the afterlife before they get to their heaven, as each who didn't die a martyr has to cross a bridge that is razor thin / sharp, in bare feet.)

[Boron]

Originally posted by Arryn:

Only practicioners of Islam have this reprehensible practice today. The rest of the world became, more or less, civilized and ceased such things as crusades, inquisitions (if we ignore the U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security), and burnings-at-stakes. Despite all that you can say about Islam being a peaceful religion, a far larger percentage of its followers remain stuck in medieval barbarism than do the followers of any other religion. Please explain why this is so ...

yeah that's a really interesting question .
i heard from moderate muslims with which i discussed myself and from many other sources that mohammed is often misunderstood too but if you look close to the koran you find nothing which legitimates suicide attacks and killing of nonmuslims .

a source is poverty .
the islam is a 700-800 year younger religion than the catholic one .
so you could say history repeats sometimes .
now the islam exists for about 1200-1300 years .
the catholic belief existed 1200-1300 years exactly in 1200-1300 . in that time they made some of their biggest crimes : the inquisition and the crusades .

now expect the hardcore ira as you mentioned before i agree that fortunately there is no other religious group that is that dangerous .
expect some muslim fanatics .

but in both cases poverty is a main cause :
irish people were ( perhaps still are i am not very informed on that topic ) the poor and disadvantaged group in northern ireland .

same with the muslim fanatics .

poverty is one of the things demagogists exploit most . in most extremist e.g. muslim splinter Groups the leader is not much more than a demagogist like saddam or hitler who just abuses the popularity of church for his own claims .

if you can't combat poverty and especially discrimination of certain Groups unfortunately i know no solution against demagogists