Poll: morale and routing

[Boron]

so far only you continue arguing against me though .

2 possible explanations :
-either all others got bored or just think i tell nonsense and gave up because they think it is impossible to convince me .

-or most start to see that my argument about upkeep is good and they see that there are no things that speak against .


probably it is explantion 1 but hope dies always Last

the closest game to dominions which is of the same genre and about the same age is age of wonders 2 shadow magic .

1 months ago i would have rated dominions clearly better than aow 2 sm . but that is perhaps because i overplayed aow 2 sm .
now i would say they are about equal . dominions is overall better but aow 2 is a bit more balanced .


this is still a big praise on johan and kristoffer . aow 2 had most likely a far bigger budget and at least 20 ppl working at it .

no matter which system is included in dominions 3 i buy it anyways 100% sure .
i just hoped to at least show that upkeep for all would have advantages too compared to the current system .


i hear almost everybody complaining that lategame is boring . perhaps this is because of the upkeep issue .


but since i like playing a game with 8-10 players most this forces you to go to a map with at least 200 provinces to have a nice game imo
with 200 provinces if i survive until lategame though it is reduced to who has a bigger gem income and who uses them better .

but since variety is always good and i know no other game with a upkeep approach as dominions i stop this now and thank illwinter once again for making one of the best games i know
that i put so much effort in my postings shows only how i concern about this game and how much i like it already.
my suggestion was still just a minor detail change imo

[Thufir]

Boron said:
probably it is explantion 1 but hope dies always Last

And you, Boron, are a very hopeful man!

[Boron]

Thufir said:

And you, Boron, are a very hopeful man!

its still the innocence of being young i guess

[Arryn]

Boron said:
its still the innocence of being young i guess

Too bad he won't listen to his elders, only his age-mates.

[Arryn]

Boron said:
so far only you continue arguing against me though .

I'm more stubborn than most. My greater age just makes it worse. If there was truly wisdom with age, I'd've given up trying to make you see reason long ago.

Boron said:
-either all others got bored or just think i tell nonsense and gave up because they think it is impossible to convince me .

The slice from Occam's Razor yields this cut.

[Gandalf Parker]

Boron said:
so far only you continue arguing against me though .

2 possible explanations :
-either all others got bored or just think i tell nonsense and gave up because they think it is impossible to convince me .

-or most start to see that my argument about upkeep is good and they see that there are no things that speak against .


probably it is explantion 1 but hope dies always Last

I think it was more #1 than #2. From the other threads here I think people are more than willing to post "I agree" Posts.

As far as I can see you base this whole thing on opinions of the game as a head-to-head player competition with strength units. Thats far from my preferred type of playing style. You seem to have sparked the interest of some people who do tend to do well with that style but dont be too surprised if people who play solo, stealth, magically, diplomatically, or swarm (just to name a few) have wandered off to other threads.

You also appear to have a fondness for "balanced units" games (which by the way tend to bore me to death). The rock-paper-scissor balance (nothing is too strong as long as SOMETHING can beat it) which DOm2 does at national level (not that a unit can be beat, but only that a nation can outpower a nation as long as there is another nation which can beat it)

As far as the summons thing, your search for balanced logic is fine. But there isnt alot of agreement that its a problem. And the fix would affect other points of balance.

[Stossel]

The rock-paper-scissor balance (nothing is too strong as long as SOMETHING can beat it) which DOm2 does at national level (not that a unit can be beat, but only that a nation can outpower a nation as long as there is another nation which can beat it)

As far as the summons thing, your search for balanced logic is fine. But there isnt alot of agreement that its a problem. And the fix would affect other points of balance.

I agree with this balance idea but it has a small caveat. The counter to a possibly unbalanced strategy has to be as easy or easier to do accomplish than the strategy in question. If not, then it is unbalanced because the questioned strategy will win through attrition.

There's no doubt in my mind that there are some strategies/nations that are in this unbalanced Category. They don't need a complete nerf, but they need to be checked properly. This is what all games struggle with, not just starcraft, or steel panthers or whatever, all strategic games of all types deal with it. Given time players will always migrate to the strongest strategies, and then once the optimal strategies are found, the information hunting (scouting, scrying, etc.), and the rock-paper-scissoresque play begins.

[Boron]

steel panthers is different it should be as realistic as possible so that there the germans are sligthly stronger doesn't hurt the game .

FM_Surrigon in starcraft are no stronger strategies .
as you pointed out intelligence is important .

a zealot/ling rush kills a teching terra . but if the terra has only a few flamethrowers he will beat this .
if you don't scout and play blind a e.g. zealot rush it is dangerous because you put all eggs in one basket .


gandalf one question because i am curious :
do you like chess ?


edit : one other question : do you like the random events in dominions or hate them ?



i took luck 3 !! and lost on turn 3 my lab . since my treasure is exactly 186 this way i have 2 turns without researching which throws me back just toooo much .

[Gandalf Parker]

Boron said:
gandalf one question because i am curious :
do you like chess ?

edit : one other question : do you like the random events in dominions or hate them ?

No I dont like chess. And I do like the random events in Dom. Im quite the advocate of solo play and increased "unfair" its such as randoms. My site at www.dom2minions.com is full of things designed to increase that in the game.

Ive been made very aware that Dom2 is created as a multiplayer game and hence is unlikely to ever get many of the things I would like to see in the game. But I am not eager to see it move farther in that direction either. Toward each single nation/unit/spell/map-feature/event being completely fair and equal. The balance in Dom2 is there for the game play but its deep and hard for some to grasp. Ive seen people give up and leave because Ulm was so out of balance with Ermor. They never realized that its more like Ulm beats Marignon which beats Ermor which beats Ulm. Thats overly simplified but its a workable example. Ulm doesnt have to beat Ermor if Marignon can. Or, Ulm doesnt have to beat Ermor as easily as Marignon does.

[Esben Mose Hansen]

Boron said:
so far only you continue arguing against me though .

2 possible explanations :
-either all others got bored or just think i tell nonsense and gave up because they think it is impossible to convince me .

Bingo for bold!

I must admit, I read this thread in a sort of puzzled disbelief. The thread started off with discussing the routing rules, which has been up and about before without any real resolution. Then a suggestion to a fix had a "side comment" that this fix would slightly lower the value of SC, which turned the thread to a "how-to-limit-SC", while another "side comment" concerning the effects of the same fix on immortals unit started a "how-to-limit-powerful" summons. While these two items were discussed, the proponents for the powerful effects in the game chimed in and stated that they hated anyone and anything that would change this Meanwhile, Gandalf was humming his "Every unit has a use, you just can't figure out how"-tune, Cainehill decided to go personal and somebody for the lack of nether fiends decided to start a thread-inside-the-thread about tthe merits and WWII tanks!

Now the thread has degenerated into people repeating what they already said, without listening. So let me write the rest of this thread for you

Boron: Why don't you see the brilliance in taxing summons?
Arryn: That would destroy the game, which is so good.
Cainehill: Why are you so stupid, Boron?
Arryn: WWII tanks are the best
Gandalf: If people would just use the units nobody use, they would easily counter [insert-strategy]!

while true goto Boron: