Are devils worth 7 blood each?

[The Panther]

Actually, the single best solution to clam hoarding would be to make water magic useful.

For a start, they ought to eliminate the inability of casting water magic on both land and water. Make water spells unique in that they all could be cast either land or water. Excepting the auqatic or land summons, of course.

But really, why on earth can niefel flames not be cast underwater? You spend all that mage time as Atlantis getting to level 9 and can't even use it in your most powerful dominion of your home territory.

As it stands, water gems are most useful for turning into astral via clams.

[Cainehill]

The Panther said:
Actually, the single best solution to clam hoarding would be to make water magic useful.

For a start, they ought to eliminate the inability of casting water magic on both land and water.

Yep. It always strikes me as wrong that air spells are more useful for underwater combat than water spells are. Lightning, orb lightning, etc, can be used on land or underwater, while many of water's direct damage spells ... can't be cast underwater. That's just so wrong...

Same thing with rituals. If Voice of Apsu can be cast on a land province, from another land province, why can't it be cast on the land province from an underwater lab?

And artifacts and magic items - with the exception of the Orb of Atlantis, there are none that require more than Water-3, and 20 water gems.

[The_Tauren13]

I think the best suggestion to change clams is to make it a command that has to be given to whoever is wearing it: a "use item" command that would simply make 1 asral gem/turn. That way, your little scouts sitting around wont be able to hide and use them at the same time. Yes yes, i know what some people might say: "but it wont make any difference; i can just use domes!". Well, maybe it wouldnt make a BIG difference, but i dont think anyone is asking for a big change, just a change. It would definitely make some difference in that clam hoarding wouldnt be totally indestructable like it is now, and at least an opponent would be able to do something to kill off your clam income.

Now don't get me wrong; i don't support a change, i was just expressing my opinion about which suggestion was best. Personally, i think clams are fine as they are. The main reason people use them is not that they are overpowered, but because there is little else useful to do with water gems, like Panther and Cainehill were saying.

[Cohen]

Domes aren't totally protective as hiding is (nor Hiding is totally protective from some spells like Mind Hunt, but to cast it usually you should know that there's someone in that province, and a lone S1 mage will feeblemind your S4+ mage, even if it's S10 he'll get feebleminded).

[The_Tauren13]

I've been wondering about mind hunt... How exactly does it work?

[Thufir]

The_Tauren13 said:
I've been wondering about mind hunt... How exactly does it work?

Badly, in my SP experience.

You get the chance to kill one enemy commander (via Mind Burn or Soul Slay, whichever you've got, or Soul Slay if you've got both), but my experience is consistent with what Cohen is saying, in that the risk of being feebleminded is very high, even if you do it with a very high level astral mage. Also, I'm beginning to think Astral Projection carries with it the same kind of bogus risk.

Just had a thought - is it possible this is the same kind of bug that had been affecting magic duel? And then, is there any chance it's fixed in 2.14?

[Cohen]

You need too some research in Thaumathurgy.
It casts a Soul Slay or Mind Burn (the better you've researched beetween those 2), and cast it remotely (those spells are combat spells) on an enemy commander in that province.
It checks on MR and if fails to pass the check the enemy die if you've Soul Slay.
I know this strikes too hiding unit and glamouring ones. (I had a Man Thuatha besieging one of my castles ... the map shows that Man was besieging me but no units were shown ... I went for Mind Hunt, the spell found the target but sadly failed to kill him).
But it has a very high double edge... if there's an astral mage in the target province this will feeblemind all your guys casting the spell in that province (it's not very realistic imo that a single guy 1S could feeblemind 6 S3 or S4 mages casting that spell in the same turn). In fact this spell is usually used by Arco, that has healing priestess and cheap astrologers.

[The_Tauren13]

Hmmm.. so ANY astral mage in the target province will ALWAYS feeblemind ALL casting mages??? That does make it sound somewhat useless...