Curious :Lategame questions. I never was so far :(

[Cohen]

Magic Duel was bugged because often a S1 mage could kill an S6 mage, probably getting killed himself but it could be a good exchange unless your 1S mage has also many other paths.
What I think is strange is that this goes only vs Astral mages ... I'd believe Magic Duel should go against every mage, and Astral Mages are advantaged.

Yes I mean flames from sky, murdering winter, seeking arrows, flames from afar, beckoning and such.
Devils usually aren't a big problem if you have Air Magic, otherwise they could be painful even for SCs.
For Soul Slay you've to get prepared... Rune Smashers and Spell Focus, a Banner of Northern Star and if you can boots of quickness and starshine skullcap (but usually you don't have so many gems to forge all those stuff, and especially to give to frail mages ... but in a game with a no clam rule I had that eq for many astrologers).

And of the "standard SC equipment" are you really able to have for each base SC like a Banelord a Starshine Cap that costs 10 Pearls, and you lose the +1S, and obtain only +2 MR ... and have you too the Amulet of Antimagic? Or perhaps you'll need some elemental res? (Banelord fixed eq: Jade Armor, Boots of Fly, Pendant of Luck - this not so fixed but this always work against every opponent... - Drain Life Weapon and eventual shield or 2nd weapon. So you've 1 Misc 1 Head slottage free).
You can kill too a MR 25 guy (Banelord with Lead Shield, AMA and Starshine Skullcap, suited to survive to Ryleh Starspawns ... he died meanwhile the lobo mindless guards held it at bay) even if you'll need your time to accomplish that.

About playing in 8 in world map isn't very balanced.
There're Nations that have better access to long run strat, like Atlantis for Clams.

[Boron]

Thanks again Cohen .

Yeah thats why i said 8 nations because in this extreme setup i think few will play e.g. man / marignon etc. because they have little abilities to hoard anything .

It is now with 2.14 not as good as it was but my favourite equipment for a sc was : Boots of quickness , Blood thorn , Luck pendant , Burning pearl , copper plate , amulet of antimagic and starshine skullcap .
This way he lacks flying if he hasn't built in but since staff of storms is so omnipresent boots of flying are only good for strategic mobility .
If i would play jotunheim niefelheim or for ice devils because they have water magic they can cast quickness so they could get boots of flying anyways instead of boots of quickness .

Now with 2.14 luckily this setup isn't as good anymore because burning pearl gives only 50% fire resist this way .
So now you have to pay if you want +4 attack and 100% fire resist because burning pearl only gives now +4 attack and 50% resist .


But with this setup i said above i think Niefel jarls , ice devils and similiar were really quite good alround SCs . Only protection was not so high but the listed equipment is not too expensive .

[Graeme Dice]

Boron said:
Yeah thats why i said 8 nations because in this extreme setup i think few will play e.g. man / marignon etc. because they have little abilities to hoard anything.

Every nation has something that they can forge for long term investment fairly easily using only their national mages.

For example:
Abysia: Soul contracts, clams.
Atlantis: Clams.
Pythium: Clams.
Caelum: Clams.
Arcoscephale: Clams.
C'tis: Fever Fetishes, clams.
Ermor: Clams.
Jotunheim: Soul Contracts, clams.
Man: Clams, fever fetishes.
Marignon: Clams, fever fetishes.
Pangaea: Earth blood stones, soul contracts.
R'lyeh: Clams.
Ulm(Default): Soul contracts.
Ulm(Iron Faith): Soul Contracts, clams.
Ulm(Black Forest): Vampire Lords.
Vanheim: Clams, earth blood stones, soul contracts.
Mictlan: Clams, soul contracts.
Machaka: Fever Fetishes.
T'ien C'Hi: Clams, fever fetishes, earth blood stones.

Every nation has the ability to invest their gems. Some just take a bit more work than others.

This way he lacks flying if he hasn't built in but since staff of storms is so omnipresent boots of flying are only good for strategic mobility .

Strategic mobility is the major point of flying boots.

[Boron]

How can ulm default produce Soul contracts ? They require blood 5 !

You are correct if you say that each nation can hoard clams with either a random * + a water bracelet or by summoning spectres .
But nations like pythium don't require a rainbow pretender while e.g. man should have otherwise it finds only the air + nature sites . Thats what i meant nations that have little abilities . They have the abilities but normally 10-20 turns later than e.g. pythium/arco

[Graeme Dice]

Boron said:
How can ulm default produce Soul contracts ? They require blood 5!

Use scouts to hunt for blood in provinces with 5000 people. Empower a master smith to blood 3. Have him forge a brazen vessel and blood thorn while using a hammer. That's a total cost of 145 blood slaves to get started. Then they only cost 40 blood slaves each.

You are correct if you say that each nation can hoard clams with either a random * + a water bracelet or by summoning spectres .

Which they all can start by about the same time as a clam hoarding nation can get started.

But nations like pythium don't require a rainbow pretender while e.g. man should have otherwise it finds only the air + nature sites.

You must not be very effective at site searching if you only use your pretender to look for sites that your national mages don't have immediately. Take your mages that have their randoms in a path you want and have them site search.

[Cainehill]

Graeme Dice said:

You must not be very effective at site searching if you only use your pretender to look for sites that your national mages don't have immediately. Take your mages that have their randoms in a path you want and have them site search.

Not to mention that Man and Pangaea (as nature nations) can always summon Lamia Queens for some randoms. If you pick a nation that doesn't have randoms (Ulm or New Age Pangaea, for instance) then you would be well advised to craft a pretender accordingly : #1, magic paths that complement your nation's hard-coded magic, and #2, at least one of the following : death, nature, or astral. Any of those three give you the long term potential to find all magic sites.

(Editted quote block)

[Boron]

Yeah i said you can always use a rainbow . But hey this is expensive and the pretender can only search 1 province every 2 turns .

If you search with those 1 point randoms first it takes you a very long time to get them and second you find only lvl 1 sites this way . And your research is hurt if you search this way .


At least with my special no-rush setting i have in mind Pythium accashicing everything should have his gemincome earlier than other nations . And they could take rather good scales this way or a strong SC pretender .