How to mod Angels to not be wimps.

Arryn · #1 September 29th, 2004, 03:04 PM

Are you sure? I'd've sworn that when I was tweaking the Ashikaga mod some months back that both weapons and armor, and not just armor, got factored in. I may be wrong. I strongly suspect I may be getting senile. (I am over 40, after all.)

atul · #2 September 29th, 2004, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Arryn said:
Are you sure? I'd've sworn that when I was tweaking the Ashikaga mod some months back that both weapons and armor, and not just armor, got factored in.

I'm with Endoperez here. Attack bonuses don't show up unless you're clicking on the attack value of unit description. Try Virtue pretender and you see the difference when using Flambeau.

Dunno if mods would do it a bit differently, though.

Edit: and attack bonuses don't stack, unlike defence bonuses. Each weapon gets its own attack bonus as a modification.

Soapyfrog · #3 September 29th, 2004, 03:33 PM

So its possible then that angels may do pretty well vs devils, although it looks to me like Devils still have the edge... and are MUCH MUCH cheaper...

Arryn · #4 September 29th, 2004, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Soapyfrog said:
So its possible then that angels may do pretty well vs devils, although it looks to me like Devils still have the edge... and are MUCH MUCH cheaper...

If you factor in the cost difference between devils and angels, the angels are either too expensive or too weak (or both). BTW, this has been said before a while back in other threads. However, until this thread, I don't think anyone's actually proposed doing anything about it.

atul · #5 September 29th, 2004, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Arryn said:
However, until this thread, I don't think anyone's actually proposed doing anything about it.

I liked the damage shield that worked specifically against undead Zen (IIRC) mentioned a while back when discussing Virtue. Probably angels would be given a slightly weaker Version should there ever be such a shield. Wouldn't keep them alive any longer without some marble warriors -level buffs, though.

NTJedi · #6 September 29th, 2004, 04:25 PM

Also keep in mind how many different types of devils and demons exist in the game compared to how many angel type units. This is another unbalance... hopefully adjusted with Dominions_3.

Combine the above with how there are so many more bad events which kill population it seems this fantasy universe is doomed for the forces of good.

Boron · #7 September 29th, 2004, 04:30 PM

First what's the cost of an angel ?
If you say the commanding arch angel is worth 20 pearls than each of the 6 angels costs 5 astral pearls . That is not so bad especially when you clamhoard .
Devils are sure cheaper though .

A angel has an attackskill of 15 and defence of 13 but he is sacred .
The devil has attack 18 with trident and 17 with barbed tail , 16 defence .

The main problem is imo that the angel has only 17 hp + 7 protection while the devil has 35 hp and 8 protection .

As it is the angel ( without bless effets ) hits ~36% of the time will the devil hits the not waterblessed angel 85,5% with his trident and 79,7% with his barbed tail .

As Zen said the devil has enough damage potential to kill the angel in 1 combat round .
21 + 2d6 oe damage with trident + 12 + 2d6 oe damage with barbed tail .

I think a good idea would be to give the Angel 25 - 30 hp .

Giving the angel 4 more attack as Zen suggested is too much : He has already a flamebeau and if you run a fire 9/10 bless for +4/5 additional attack then suddenly the angel would have an attackrating of 23-24 !
Then he would be the bane of all banelords , tartarians and other SCs because he has a flamebeau .

Hm really hard to balance the angel imo . If you make him too strong he wipes out either normal troops extremely well too or he is the bane of all undead/demon SCs .
As it is now his relatively low hp , protection and defense let the angel die after 1-2 hits though and he gets hit too much .

Zen · #8 September 29th, 2004, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Boron said:
Giving the angel 4 more attack as Zen suggested is too much : He has already a flamebeau and if you run a fire 9/10 bless for +4/5 additional attack then suddenly the angel would have an attackrating of 23-24 !
Then he would be the bane of all banelords , tartarians and other SCs because he has a flamebeau .

Heh, a Blessing that actually works for it's blessed units?!?! OMG.

An Angel that is the bane of all Undead?!? OMG.

Keep away from that, most assuredly.

Cainehill · #9 September 29th, 2004, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Boron said:
Giving the angel 4 more attack as Zen suggested is too much : He has already a flamebeau and if you run a fire 9/10 bless for +4/5 additional attack then suddenly the angel would have an attackrating of 23-24 !
Then he would be the bane of all banelords , tartarians and other SCs because he has a flamebeau .

I wonder if you've ever seen a tartarian in the game? The typical one has 150-250 HPs, making it almost impossible for the angel to kill in 1 hit. The tartarians on the other hand only have to hit the angel once, and also have a variety of magic paths they can use.

In addition, you say "if you run a fire 9/10 bless" : well, yes, _IF_ you do. How many people run fire blessings for the effect on angels? And even with an unholy, er, holy, attack rating, the angels still die like holy flies to many forms of attack, especially magical.