OT: Nuclear War???

[Slick]

Again, no offense, but even in your example of one of the basic fusion reactions:

D+T->He+n+E

Free neutrons just don't hang around, the free neutron "n" in that equation can/does activate surrounding materials and does create radioactive isotopes.

I say again, that "fusion is clean" is just the public impression. Fission has a very negative public image. People think about Bikini Atoll, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, SL-1, and other accident sites. They don't think (or know that) workers at a coal mine or coal burning conventional plant get more radiation exposure from the naturally occurring Carbon-14 than nuclear plant workers. They don't think/know that, although there have been accidents at nuclear power planets, there also have been accidents at conventional power plants which have resulted in a great many more deaths over the years. What about people who fly in airplanes for a living - they spend many hours at high altitudes above some of the protection of the natural radiation protection. People get killed all the time in non-nuclear industry, but people think that non-nuclear industry is "clean" as well. I don't think that acid rain, smog and industrial waste in the country's rivers is "clean", and they didn't come from nuclear plants.

Fusion is considered "clean" because we won't have to mine fissionable materials from the ground; we can pull deuterium out of the ocean - ocean water is abundant, right? and has an infinite supply of deuterium, right? They also think that the the reaction is Hydrogen -> Helium. I don't see any "dirty" by-products in that reaction (that equation is not correct, by the way, but it is "common knowledge") And Helium is very safe and very clean. We all know that. We put it in our kids' balloons. We inhale it to make our voices sound funny.

I personally think fusion will be a great step foward as well, but I work in the industry. I don't think it will be as safe and clean as its current reputation. Let's put it this way: a fission reactor (with all of its bad publicity) works at (or usually below) temperatures & pressures of conventional power plants. Fusion can only work at temperatures & pressures found in the sun. Safe and clean?

[Aiken]

Offense? No, it's always good to learn something new or dispel delusions. What equation would be correct? Asking this out of curiosity.

[Slick]

aiken said:
Offense? No, it's always good to learn something new or dispel delusions. What equation would be correct? Asking this out of curiosity.

I'm not vouching for everything on this website, but here's an overview. Any college textbook also has the basics.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ne/fusion.html

[Slick]

Well said, Slick.

--------------------
Assume you have a 1kg squirrel
E=mc^2
E=1kg(3x10^8m/s)^2=9x10^16J
which, if I'm not mistaken, is equivilent to roughly a 50 megaton nuclear bomb.
Fear the squirrel.

Now, Spoo....

I've been meaning to talk to you about your sig...

just kidding.

[Aiken]

Slick said:

I'm not vouching for everything on this website, but here's an overview. Any college textbook also has the basics.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ne/fusion.html

So what was wrong with an equation? It was just written in simplified form, and equalent to strict equation:


edit: see Last reaction

[Atrocities]

I wonder how the military was able to keep its war mongering fanatics of the 50's and 60's from lighting up Russa with our nukes?

You know there had to be at least one guy who wanted to push the button without permission. I wonder what ever happened to him?

[Aiken]

Atrocities said:
I wonder how the military was able to keep its war mongering fanatics of the 50's and 60's from lighting up Russa with our nukes?

You know there had to be at least one guy who wanted to push the button without permission. I wonder what ever happened to him?

[trolling]Yeah, JK was quite in the mood to starting WW3 during Caribbean Crisis. Thanks lord our GenSek was smarter than your President and receded.[/trolling]

[Randallw]

My understanding is that at one time (80's I think) the Soviet Union was anxious about NATO excercises in Germany (I may be getting confused with Gen. Hackets WW3). Anyhow at one stage there was a malfunction in the Soviet Unions detection system that for a short while made them think the US had launched nukes. It was up to one officer to decide if he should react. Luckily he did not want to overreact and decided not to jump the gun.

[Atrocities]

aiken said:

[trolling]Yeah, JK was quite in the mood to starting WW3 during Caribbean Crisis. Thanks lord our GenSek was smarter than your President and receded.[/trolling]

Well those missiles in Cuba might have had something with provoking our President at the time. Besides his dad gave in the russan demands for Germany lock stock and barrel. Not that I could car about such things, but what do you think would have happened if your GS had decided to stick to his guns?

Have any of you ever dreamed about seeing a nuke light off? I have, a couple of times, and lets just say that I awoke and was very sobered by the experience. If our world leaders, those who have the nukes, have ever had one of these dreams, I will bet they too awoke in a cold sweat and voved to do what they could to prevent such a thing from ever happening.

How we made it out of the 80's without lighing up the world like a roman candel is beyond me, but I am thankful that we did not. I can remember where I was when the movie the Day After was aired on ABC. It was a sunday in October 83. There was a follow up movie about life after the bLast, where people went on with their lives like normal as the depth of what happend began to sink in. People died not only from radation poisoning, but because they simply saw no hope in the future. It was a deeply profoundly sad movie and one, if watched, will turn your stomic.

I would not want my children, if I had any, to live in such a post war world. The thought of them trying to survive the death around them would be too much to bare. Better to die in the bLast than live in the aftermath.

[Slick]

aiken said:

So what was wrong with an equation? It was just written in simplified form, and equalent to strict equation:


edit: see Last reaction

Aiken, sorry for the confusion, but I never said your equation was wrong. This is what I said:

Slick said:
<snip>
Fusion is considered "clean" because we won't have to mine fissionable materials from the ground; we can pull deuterium out of the ocean - ocean water is abundant, right? and has an infinite supply of deuterium, right? They also think that the the reaction is Hydrogen -> Helium. I don't see any "dirty" by-products in that reaction (that equation is not correct, by the way, but it is "common knowledge") And Helium is very safe and very clean. We all know that. We put it in our kids' balloons. We inhale it to make our voices sound funny.

What I did disagree with is the Last sentence here:

aiken said:
Probably it came from the most trivial fusion reaction: D+T->He+n+E. It doesn't have a decay products in form of radioactive isotopes, so it's considered "clean".

because of unmentioned following reactions involving the free neutron and I said:

Slick said:
Again, no offense, but even in your example of one of the basic fusion reactions:

D+T->He+n+E

Free neutrons just don't hang around, the free neutron "n" in that equation can/does activate surrounding materials and does create radioactive isotopes.

I see that I am becoming a pain here and that wasn't my intention. I'll leave this thread quietly now. Sorry if I upset anyone.