[PBEM game] Entwined Destiny (Over)

[The Panther]

Boron said:
[They are not underpriced at all .
20 turns without a dwarfen hammer , 14 with a dwarfen hammer until they reach break even point .

Your math is terrible. The actual break even point for a clam is 7 turns without a hammer and 5 turns with a hammer. This is because 7 pearls is worth approximately 10 water gems, imho. Pearls are vastly more useful that water gems, which is why I think this.

And converting 20 pearls back to 10 water just to make another clam is really dumb. The pearls are far better used to make items for your SCs, like resistance and luck and shrouds (if you have a decent bless effect) and skullcaps. Or for archastic record. Or used to empower towards wish if your pretender can't do it. Or building up to arcane nexus. Or any other useful things for pearls besides wasting them on converting to water.

A 5 turn payback (with hammer investment) for making a clam is just plain bad. That is why most good players make lots of pearls as they are able, whether or not they are turtling or hoarding or fighting for territory or defending their own territory. Just about every decent player does this. I know you do.

Besides, by the time someone starts targeting your scouts with lucky artillery spells, you have held your clams for such a long time that it does not hurt that much if you lose a few. I agree with Yvelina on this one, if you have 80 scouts in your capitol all with clams and no domes, then you deserve what you get.

If clams were to cost something closer to their true value, like 3WS1 as suggested by my son, then you WOULD have to consider doing something else with your water gems besides the no-brainer decision to make clams and clams and more clams. It was Norfleet who first pointed out the immense value of a cheap clam. Maybe he was cheating, but he was certainly a darn good player who understood the game even when not cheating.

[Boron]

The Panther said:

Your math is terrible. The actual break even point for a clam is 7 turns without a hammer and 5 turns with a hammer. This is because 7 pearls is worth approximately 10 water gems, imho. Pearls are vastly more useful that water gems, which is why I think this.

What you say is your subjective feeling . In order to make an objective comparison you have to chose a bench mark and that are water gems .

The Panther said:
Besides, by the time someone starts targeting your scouts with lucky artillery spells, you have held your clams for such a long time that it does not hurt that much if you lose a few. I agree with Yvelina on this one, if you have 80 scouts in your capitol all with clams and no domes, then you deserve what you get.

I mean a completely different situation :

If you really hoarded and the game reaches about turn 80-100 then there will be a point where you exceed 500 hoarditem carriers . Unless you are an underwater nation you can't protect them properly .

I experienced this myself in back to the fray , once Thufir gets active again on the board he will confirm it .
Though he spreaded his approximately 300-400 hoarders Edi and Odd enuf managed to give him severe trouble and kill about 50% of them by artillery spells in a few turns .

Unless you are an underwater nation there is no problem at all with clams . And before the clamhoarder reaches a critical mass of >300 clams and 3 wishcasters the clamhoarder hasn't such a big edge .

The average province is worth about 40 gold and 3 gems income .
Normally the turtling hoarder doesn't go for provinces so if you conquer instead you have e.g. 120 provinces while the hoarder has 30 provinces .
You get about 4800 gold and 360 gems from those provinces , the hoarder gets 1200 gold and 90 gems from his provinces and 300 gems from clams .
So you are of about equal power . Normally you attack the hoarder first and you should be able to do some damage to his hoarders with flames or preventive strike province capturing .

If a player choses to hoard and turtle before turn 70 he is very vulnerable and only after turn 90 he has quickly growing chances of winning .

[Boron]

We could make a poll on the normal board about hoard items how ppl think about them .
I wonder how many % would say they are fine as they are and how many % would want them changed .

If i had to guess about 60% would vote for nerfing and 40% would say they are fine .

[TheBirthdayParty]

I've been trying out the theatre of war map and I can't seem to figure out how to move from the outlying circle of the map where you start to the main land. The map description says you need to own a capital? I own all the provinces in the circle...

[The Panther]

One of your provinces has a connection into the middle.

Go into map filters and click on the box labeled neighbors. Then look at each of your provinces until you find the one that shows a connection.

[PashaDawg]

Map: Ringworld, but I would not stab myself with a samurai sword if we played Theater of War.

Victory Conditions: If Ringworld, then no VC. If Theater of War, then I would vote for some sort of % of the central circle as a victory condition.

Diplomacy: No limitations.

On the issue of choke points in T.O.W., I have no opinion.

[Alneyan]

The following nations have been picked by team 4, 5 and 6: Ulm, Jotunheim and Arcoscephale. I will be sending a mail to the last three teams about their last pick.

The following nations have been taken: Arcoscephale, Caelum, C'tis, Jotunheim, Mictlan, Pangaea, Pythium, Ulm, Vanheim.

And for the vote:
- The map: Inland and ToW are the contenders here, but Inland seems to be the preferred one. So Inland it shall be.
- Diplomacy: It will be on.
- Victory condition: Total Annihilation