Unit only empires

LeTharg · #1 August 12th, 2001, 09:38 PM

In several of the PBEM games I've played empires have been reduced to all units (mines). They have no planets, ships or population. Two things happen. First they lose all contact with other empires so they can't surrender and, secondly, they can't destruct their mines because this is simultaneous play. Bummer.

In fact in my Last game, there were two empires left in that state. Since it was a "Last player standing' game, the only way for me to win officially was to sweep all of space hoping to find the mines. Fortunately the host was a good guy and called it a win anyway.

Seems to me that an empire without ships or planets isn't much of an empire and should be automatically terminated. The leftover units could be destroyed or put into some sort of leftovers list waiting to nail anyone who found them.

On the other hand, if you want to be sure of staying in the game until the bitter end, scatter a few mines where no one will look for them. You'll stay around.

Master Belisarius · #2 August 12th, 2001, 10:01 PM

I concur 100% with you.

Urendi Maleldil · #3 August 12th, 2001, 10:02 PM

I think an empire with only ships left should still be able form treaties and keep relations with other players. If all a player has is a colony ship left and they are completely surrounded by a former ally, they wouldn't lose that treaty and their Last best hope gets blown up in a formerly friendly mine field or something else. I've seen this happen to neutrals who get overrun. I noticed that sometimes they actually evacuate their home system and attempt to start a new colony somewhere, but it almost never works because of this.

If a human player has only units left, then it should be counted a loss, all relations should be severed, and control should revert to the AI. That way later races can still encounter leftover mine fields and things, but no human player has to worry about them.

disabled · #4 August 12th, 2001, 10:39 PM

I agree, if an empire has no population left, it should be considered a win and thier remains become derelicts/ruins.

I still think SE should be population based to a small degree. I love casualty lists... Only if they go to my foe....

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Baron Munchausen · #5 August 12th, 2001, 10:43 PM

This problem could be solved by the 'seat of government' feature we've discussed before. If you have a special ability that can be put in a facility OR on a component called 'seat of government' you could then determine diplomatic relations by the existence of said component or facility. If you lose it, your diplomatic relations go out thew window until you can make a replacement. If you're really paranoid like the Minbari in B5 you could keep your seat of government in a cloaked ship off in a remote corner of your empire.

Suicide Junkie · #6 August 12th, 2001, 11:17 PM

Ship-only empires definitely have to be allowed to continue playing, and a component to allow communications with other races would be very useful. Sounds like a good use for the Palace Ability. A 1MT component that only fits on baseships, and makes the ship act like a planet in terms of contact/comm/relations.
AIs would still be unable to make good use of the component...
Perhaps it would just be best to allow ships to maintain contact with other races, and leave it at that.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 12 August 2001).]

Quikngruvn · #7 August 13th, 2001, 05:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Perhaps it would just be best to allow ships to maintain contact with other races, and leave it at that.

I agree on that point. Figure, ships have radio and other communications devices, so could send transmissions to other empires (assuming they still have contact). Units, having no such devices (fighters' wouldn't be powerful enough), could not maintain contact.

Quikngruvn

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Stay alert. Trust no one. Keep your laser handy.
--from the RPG Paranoia, now my PBW mantra

Saxon · #8 August 13th, 2001, 02:57 PM

Cynical question coming up. If you have gotten so knocked out of the game that you are down to ships only, what are your realistic chances of coming back to do anything significant? Given the exponential growth that most empires depend on, could you catch up again?

I am thinking that in a close fight, an ally who colonized different planets might help you out. Or in a game with unusual victory conditions you might be able to help. However, in a traditional, big dog on top wins, game, would it be realistic to expect to get anywhere? An ally would only let you get so big before eating you up and whoever glassed your planets is will be way ahead of you.

Not having played much against other humans, I would be interested to hear about situations where you might be able to do something in this situation.

geoschmo · #9 August 13th, 2001, 03:03 PM

Does anyone remember why this change was made? IIRC originally (Maybe in the demo?) you didn't lose contact when your planets were gone. Or am I thinking of SEIII? It's all fuzzy at this point.

Anyway, if anyone else remembers that at one point you didn't lose contact casue your planets went away, do you remeber why it got changed?

Geo

Urendi Maleldil · #10 August 13th, 2001, 03:11 PM

Yes. I remember it changed.

If all you have are ships left, as long as you have a colony ship (or can build one) and some population, you can come back if you play hard, but it will be quite a challenge.

If all you have left are fighting ships you can prep for one Last battle which would be fun.

Also if all an empire has are ships and they can maintain communication with other empires, you can still get them to surrender and get some nice, new (or old) ships.