OT: Extrasolar planets discovered directly

[Alneyan]

Well, the answer to whether alien life exists or not is quite obvious: just look at Fyron and Narf! Fyron is a proven Vorlon, and have you ever seen sapient mice wielding six-foot tall hammers? Of course not; besides, mice are the true rulers of the universe, and do not hail from Earth.

(What I am really wondering about is how those other lifeforms would think, but that would be another matter, and a bigger can of worms so I will stay quiet. See, you aren't even reading this message!)

[Renegade 13]

Alneyan said:
See, you aren't even reading this message!

Really? I don't believe you!

[kerensky]

/me joins party and brings protable popcorn machine. ******* (this is the emoticon for popcorn according to this site. Here is another smiley site. /

[Alneyan]

Renegade 13 said:
Really? I don't believe you!

Of course not! Only the Illuminati, and anyone whose initials are WS, would get the true meaning behind my message; for you, they must be mere words of little consequence.

*Smites the closest person watching the spectacle, with a replica of "Narf's Hammer of Smiting +5", and drops the Hammer next to Narf*

[Atrocities]

I should also point out that we have no direct proof that there isn't life out there, but the evidence at hand makes the likelyhood that there is that much less likely. Also, who is to that the universe itself is not, or is a life form?

Granted we know so very little about the subject that for all intents and purposes we are but single celled ameba's compared to the human body.

[Hunpecked]

Also, who is to that the universe itself is not, or is a life form?

I recall a line from Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" series on PBS many years ago: "We are a way for the universe to know itself." Since we (and possibly other intelligent species) are part of the universe, then in a sense the universe itself is alive and sentient.

Or maybe just alive...

[DeadZone]

Alneyan said:See, you aren't even reading this message!

Huh, you said something?

[Randallw]

I once read a short story about Sherlock Holmes. In this story the radio was invented but mankind could not hear any alien messages and there was concern why. It transpired as part of the story that the quantum uncertainty field covering the earth, due to the fact that it was not known if Sherlock Holmes indeed died falling from Niagara falls, meant that no alien messages could get through. Another story was written with proof that he survived. At this the quantum uncertainty field was removed and suddenly we were inundated with alien radio traffic. very wierd book.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Perhaps silicon beings don't have such complex and long polymer chains and therefore are simpler, but this does not mean that they cannot be alive. Perhaps their "DNA" length is as long as a human's, but simply cut up into much more small pieces - chromosomes, anyone?

And silicon isn't the only element in the periodic table next to carbon. I'm utterly terrible at chemistry (or science in general), but I think that to support life the building blocks don't need to posess similar properties as carbon. For all we know, there might be iron-based life forms out there debating whether or not carbon-based life is possible.

And if carbon-based life does exist, why does it have to be Earthlike carbon life? Diamonds are carbon, why couldn't there be diamond-like beings out there? Carbon-based yet totally different from Terran life. And even if it looks like Terran life, what criteria are there save for oxygen-breathing, water-needing creatures? Plants breathe carbon dioxide, yet are still considered Terran life. And if we compare Terran life forms, are they so alike? What are the similarities between, say, a stag deer and a clump of moss? An elephant and an oak tree? A Bengal tiger and an amoeba?

[Hunpecked]

Perhaps silicon beings don't have such complex and long polymer chains and therefore are simpler, but this does not mean that they cannot be alive.

Well, "simpler" is a complex concept when it comes to alien life. If silicon-based life is unable to mimic carbon's complicated polymers, the required chemical "workarounds" might be extraordinarily complex. As a layman I can't even begin to think about the chemical gymnastics required...I think I'm getting a headache.

but I think that to support life the building blocks don't need to posess similar properties as carbon.

Which would render useless just about all of our current knowledge of life. To imagine non-carbon life we'd have to start from first principles, e.g. what chemical structures could/would our chosen element(s) form to reproduce, react to stimuli, evolve...? (My head hurts more.)

For all we know, there might be iron-based life forms out there debating whether or not carbon-based life is possible.

See below.

Plants breathe carbon dioxide, yet are still considered Terran life.

Green plants also consume oxygen, just like we do, though they're net oxygen producers. BTW, one gets a real sense of our place in the universe by remembering that we survive only by breathing plant excrement.

What are the similarities between, say, a stag deer and a clump of moss?

Strangely enough, I understand that the genetic differences are smaller than one might think. Note also that they're similar enough chemically that they both survive in the same overall environment (a North American woodland, say) and the deer can even eat the moss.

Returning to iron and silicon as building blocks of alien life, I'm actually kicking myself here for overlooking popular scifi "silicon-based" lifeforms that actually seem quite plausible: mechanoids (droids, robots, automata...). So far our own efforts in the areas of AI and self-directing automata are fairly primitive, but we're far enough along to envision far more sophisticated forms worthy of the adjective "alive". Although it's hard to imagine how mechanical "life" could develop on its own, we already know of one carbon-based lifeform that may some day give rise to such "iron-based" life.