Rebalance Mod game now running on a 24h timer.

[Saber Cherry]

I enjoyed it too Even though I never managed to take an enemy castle...

Thanks very much to everyone who participated, and Ironhawk for hosting! If you wish to share your thoughts on which unit(s) you found extremely (or overly) effective, and which units were very (or overly) weak, I would greatly appreciate that. Some things have already changed since v7.1 of the mod, like Longbows going back to non-AP, Mauls being slightly weakened, and White Centaurs being nerfed. But any comments on units (or unit classes) that stood out for any reason would be very useful.

Personally, I found myself fielding large numbers of Jotun Spearmen (with occasional Hirdmen, as money permitted), Vaetti Hags, Longbowmen, 3g Militia, and a few dozen Vaettir for stealth armies. My national mages (other than Vaetti Hags, of which all 4 types are extremely useful) were just bad. Terrible. I found no use for them other than casting Rain on Abysians. The only Priests I built, other than my prophet, were independants. Which, overall, paints a picture of a Jotunheim still lacking in variety. I think the mages need to be cheaper or stronger, and there has to be a good incentive to buy Huskarls who cost more than normal infantry, but have lower protection, and thus lower survivability... Even at 16 gold and +1 morale, I still did not want to buy Jotun Militia (and even high province defence fell fast to any opposition), largely due to food issues. And I still found Jotun Axes to be worse than Jotun Spears, in general.

Most interestingly... I did not seem to have a single unit capable of hurting a Vampire Queen, even one in strong hostile dominion. I found this out several times. And medium-sized armies of Jotun Spearmen, backed by Fanatacism and Devils, were unable to push back an attacking Red Dragon. Hirdmen would have worked much better, so that may have been my fault... but WOW, dragons are tough in Zen's mod!

Once I gained access to Illithids (via The Crater), I realized (IMO, of course) they were a better use of my money than anything else - mages, dirt-cheap militia, powerful Jotun units, maul barbarians, longbowmen, and so forth. And I spent ALL my money recruiting them. Incidentally, they seem starvation-resistant...

[quantum_mechani]

My notes on balance:

*White Centaurs: They are too good with the lance, they should go back to normal.

*Centaur Warriors: Didn't use them due to the awesome white centaurs. If the sacred ones were back to normal they would be fine though.

*Centaur Archers: Still too expensive, you can get 3 javelin satyr for the same price.

*Satyr Troops: All look about right.

*Harpies: Good price for them, 10 with a black harpy is a good way to make someone pay for only using 1 PD point.

*Centaur Catarphacts: I didn't use them, but they probably have a niche if the white centaur's don't have a lance.

*Minotaurs: I built a few of theses when I had a remote castle with not much resources that needed an army, and I had a lot of gold to spare.

*War Minotaurs: Probably useful in some situations.

*Pans & Pandomoniacs: I've grown attached to their normal large price... it feels like cheating when I can build so many of them

*Hierophants & Dryads: Fine, I don't think they were changed (nor do they need to be)

*Black Harpy: Fine.

*Cataphract Commander: Fine.

*Minotaur Commander: More expensive than cataphract commanders, same leadership, and worse in a fight most most of the time.

[Ironhawk]

I found base Ulm to be capable. Tho I would probably not play them in a game without the Level 4 Limit. If any of the battlefield-wide spells had been in play I would probably have been annihilated since I could not counter it with limited Ulm magic.

Here is the limited set of units I purchased as Ulm:
Ultra Heavy Morningstar inf (general purpose troops)
Black Knights
Ultra Heavy Pikemen (for repel vs Jots or later Pan centaurs)
Ultra Heavy Flail, which i actually never got a chance to use, but they seemed like great units to attack a fort gate.

I basically never mixed light and heavy units, building only heavy pretty much uniformly. Occassionally I built some light pikemen to beef up production since I only cared about thier repel anyway.

Never bought a battleaxe, probably wouldnt ever if mauls were still AP. Tho I never bought any mauls either, for that matter.

Never bought any arbalestiers. The super slow rate of fire of the arbalest just cripples that unit. Maybe bump it up to 1/2 rounds with less precision and more damage or something? Can't see anyone ever buying it. Made for a tolerable PD tho.

Never bought any guardians, either commanders or troops. They were decent troops but not worth thier pricetag in terms of combat power and thier defense bonus didnt make up for it either given how easy it is to seige. I'd say bump that defense value up to.. say 5 for the troop and maybe 10 for the commander. Put thier gold cost inline with the normal troops (10-20gp) and count on their captial-only nature to keep production under control. Then you give ulm an interesting advantage in that it can make a couple of forts quite difficult to seige. Seems like a reasonable thing for ulm tho, eh?

Longbowmen were the archer of choice, but of course you've already changed that.

The 3g militia were very useful as patrollers and chaff. Never bought any of the other indy types.