Recoilless Rifles

[PlasmaKrab]

Don't woory, it IS in the game. Variously termed Carl Gustav, CG, MAW (Great Britain), or weird-looking numerical designations in nordic countries. Often with M1, M2 or M3 model number.

And basically it is just what it is suppsed to be: a shoulder-fired 84mm RLR, with HEAT or HE warheads.
Penetration is between 40 and 50 in the game, so relate that to the tank armors of that time.
One team carries generally up to 12 shots, so that makes you a team weapon quite comparable to a RPG-7.

You can find it in several countries indeed, among which USA , UK, Germany (W), Netherlands, Portugal, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Denmark...

Oh, and your RBS69 seems to be a SAM missile. Hence the pen=2

[SCAJolly]

UK OOB: Weapon 29 - 84mm MAW, range 2......... (100m)
Norwegian OOB: Weapon 29 - M2 Carl Gustaf, range 9 (450m)
The Norwegian military has trained its CG gunners in firing at static objects up to 700m (14 hexes!), moving objects at 500. I assume that such a(n annoyingly!) low range-value has been preserved to not make it a superweapon.

[GaryG48]

WOW! Thanks for the quick responses and great info guys!

I'll take a closer look at the WinSPMBT encyclopedia and brew myself up a little "battle" to check it out.

--Gary

[Pergite]

PlasmaKrab said:
Oh, and your RBS69 seems to be a SAM missile. Hence the pen=2

Also known as REDEYE (for you NATO members), the predecessor to STINGER. RBS69 is just a Swedish designition. RBS stands for Robot-System (Missile System) and that concludes this days course in nordic languages.

[PlasmaKrab]

OK, I didn't know RBS-69 = Redeye = FIM-53

I just knew the Swedish army used to have Redeyes...
But right enough the designations in Scandinavian countries can get quite cryptic, and since they generally buy half of their stuff, then upgrade half of it to the point it is not recognizable, and the other half is domestic design never, ever to be exported...

Anyway, still easier than in China or Japan ...

On the other matter here, has anyone ayn explanation about this Carl Gustav range thing?

Over quite all the oobs it seems to be range=9 and HEAT pen=50 for M3 and 40 for M2, except in the UK where it only penetrates 42cm at 4 hexes...

[SCAJolly]

Harrharr, limeys can't shoot.

[Pergite]

PlasmaKrab said:
Over quite all the oobs it seems to be range=9 and HEAT pen=50 for M3 and 40 for M2, except in the UK where it only penetrates 42cm at 4 hexes...

That is odd. The CG system today offers a wide variety of ammunitons, some even (according to the manufacturer)capable to punch through MBT armour. Then there is some kind of flechett shell made for jungle warfare that after what I have seen is very devestating.

My point is that the CG systems values in general maybe should be upgraded because it today packs a whole lot more power than back in 1948.

[PlasmaKrab]

One thing we won't be able to do right now, and that I saw in use on the CG, is a tandem-HEAT rocket able of dealing with reactive armor.

Pergite, do you have hard data about old and new CG ammo? I'll chech the Dynamit-Nobel website anyway, but if you have anything first-hand that could be better.

How about range? 450m seems correct to me.

[Pergite]

PlasmaKrab said:
Pergite, do you have hard data about old and new CG ammo?

This is the information I am sitting on, but its already posted by Saab Bofors Dynamics themselves:

LINK

There you have all the data of the latest ammunition types in .pdf as well as some commercials.


Range totally depends on the target, its speed, your sight system and what ammuntion you are using. With HEAT you can hit a moving (<50km/h) target at ranges of up to 150m. If its stationary and huge increase the range up to almost 400m. HE can be uses up to 700m and Smoke up to 1000m. This however is with old sights and ammuniton. The new rocket assisted HEAT rounds should have the capability to reach targets at around 700m.

[PlasmaKrab]

Depends on what you are talking about exactly. Tactical range is dealt with by both range and accuracy. So if the new RA-HEAT ammo goes up to 700m, you can rocket-assist as much as you like, that alone won't make it more accurate.

Besides, even now the CG is used in Germany to launch light flares (night sighting for Milan without TI). It is reported for ranges up to 2000m (Milan range).
In the game you have the same range for CGs firing HE rounds. Since this is a separate weapon I had assumed it was used in indirect fire, which is senseless for antitank.

But maybe the basic range of most CG versions can be brought up to maybe 1km or so, even if that would be a great blunder for AI and beginners, i.e. they'd fire much earlier for no result and give themselves away.