obat66 Sweden

[JohnT]

Pergite said:

The problem with pictures is that its wrong(illegal) to use them without permission. I dont know how they have handeld it with the picures allready in the game.

Some of the pic's are old, from the original SP2 mod. I tried to use public documents or got permission( Airforce museeum, SPHF and KÖMS)

And with an armed forces public relations department who believes professionalism means making money rather than further public relations one should be wary.
(They already sued one private museum)

As I was told, photos from official documents/books without a specific copyright or noted cameraman are considered to be public.
The resoning is that he who took the photo was employed by the armed forces and it was part of his job to photo. When a photographers is mentioned,
he owns the artistic rights for a long time (70? years)

The sad thing is that you can't find non copyrighted photos in modern manuals.
(I was tempted to use some of the Straw-men used in manuals from 50-60ies but refrained)


And I'm very pleased if any one cares to update OB66 past 2000


Cheers
/John T.

[Pergite]

JohnT said:

And I'm very pleased if any one cares to update OB66 past 2000

Of course we will!
The pictures really are a hot issue. I will try to contact some friends and get their photographs of different units.

If the military wont give permission then why not try the arms dealers? They have alot of comercial material that they spread around so maybe they wouldnt mind giving some of it our way, or have you tried that? We are allready using their products so why not credit them with proper pictures as well?
Saab Dynamics, Bofors Defence, Patria, Alvis Hägglunds... what else do we got?

[wulfir]

Pergite said:
... what else do we got?

IIRC some of the pictures in the game are credited to Föreningen P5-

http://www.foreningenp5.com/sv/index.shtml

Since they are open during the summer and I'm on vacation I could easily head there (don't live far from Boden) and beg for some stuff... and maybe put my digital camera to good use.

But I think we need to make a list of priority stuff... not sure AFV photos are such a pressing need...


Also, how many pictures can be added to the game...?

[Pergite]

wulfir said:
But I think we need to make a list of priority stuff...

There are alot of outdated pictures:

Rifle section (090.091)
Arm Rifle section (127,128,132)
Recon Section (143)
Mot recon group (146)
Sniper (149,150,152,153,175)
Paratroop sec (154-157)
Partroop team (158-160,163)
Para sniper (161,162)
AT-inf MBT (174)

Uh... I will make a more detailed list later.

Rangers with and without support weapons.
Headquarters
Observer teams
Coastal rangers
Home Guard
etc...

I think the AFV´s and Tanks are covered, its the infantry and different support weapons that is lacking. The OOB itself also need alot of remodelling if we are talking present/future.
There are very few units that has a correct organization due to the recent changes in the defence force. There are alot of new different battalions and changes have been done even down to section level in most cases.

I guess we need to split up the work somehow. Most recent "Reglementen" are published on mil.se, there its easy to get the organisation right, then its just some fine tuning that is left.

[wulfir]

Pergite said:
I think the AFV´s and Tanks are covered, its the infantry and different support weapons that is lacking.

I agree.

Pergite said:
The OOB itself also need alot of remodelling if we are talking present/future.

True, but I think it would be cool to add/expend some other pre 1990 formations as well - brigade/battalion recon, engineer company, local defence/territorial/ värnkompni etc.

Pergite said:
I guess we need to split up the work somehow. Most recent "Reglementen" are published on mil.se, there its easy to get the organisation right, then its just some fine tuning that is left.

I'm open to suggestions... I did tinker around some with the OOBs but quit because a friend of mine was doing a much better job... I'll see if I can get him to show up.

[Backis]

Hi there.

Wulfir asked me to get my arse over here, so I did.

Nice to know more people than me see the need for a thorough update of the obat.

I've been wrestling with the 66 for a while now, and decided to completely remake the obat early this year. When I learned that WinSPMBT was coming out I sorta lost my energy for the work since I couldn't be sure the formats would be compatible. But now I'm going full burn since the format didn't change at all (insert Ren and Stimpy happy-happy-joy-joy song as theme).

I'd be interested in contributing my work so far, or gladly accept help in getting the OOB and picklist part sorted out, while Im almost done with my take on the ToE (mainly artillery and AA left to do), or just to be a ballplank to bounce ideas off.

Additions I've made to include but are not limited to, coastal artillery and emplacements, amphibious forces and transports, deeper implementation of NGFS capability, possible layout of the planned airmobile batallion, expanded battlefield sensor list (ARTHUR, ArtE), MP and other rear area security forces.

Oh, and the official designation of the CV90 AMOS has been set to grkpbv 90120 according to mil.se.

[Pergite]

Backis said:
I'd be interested in contributing my work so far, or gladly accept help in getting the OOB and picklist part sorted out, while Im almost done with my take on the ToE (mainly artillery and AA left to do), or just to be a ballplank to bounce ideas off.

Sounds great, and it would be nice if you could upload your OOB so we could get a sneak peek on it and see what we could help with.
I know that there is a ton of changes and addons that I would like to do, but you may have allready done them.
For example adding "all" our "rapid" deployment units as well as future battlegroup elements.
But it would be nice if you could upload your OOB in this thread, and if we could have that one to work from?

Btw, what kind of experience are we together sitting on?

[Backis]

wulfir said:
True, but I think it would be cool to add/expend some other pre 1990 formations as well - brigade/battalion recon, engineer company, local defence/territorial/ värnkompni etc.

I agree, the disappearance of Recon formations from the obat are hard to understand. F e the mech units have organic recon that right now drive around in bv206 and tgb11/13, and in the future will use a mix of those and bv208/209 and ptgb6 (Alvis RG-32) that aren't represented. All mot/mech infantry and recon should also be available dismounted. Other units also retain recon formations, usually a company for the individual batallions I believe.

värnkompni

I think that Driftvärnet has been thoroughly disbanded if thats what you're referring to.

[wulfir]

Backis said:
värnkompni

I think that Driftvärnet has been thoroughly disbanded if thats what you're referring to.

Hmm... from what I understand vkomp was meant to man various fortifications/defence installations, in a pretty static role.

Mostly older cadres etc local misfits, not held in particulary high regard by the "field army".

Doubt they are in existance now with the dismantling of the invasion defence.

[JohnT]

[b]Pergite said

The pictures really are a hot issue. I will try to contact some friends and get their photographs of different units.

If the military wont give permission then why not try the arms dealers? They have alot of comercial material that they spread around so maybe they wouldnt mind giving some of it our way, or have you tried that? We are allready using their products so why not credit them with proper pictures as well?
Saab Dynamics, Bofors Defence, Patria, Alvis Hägglunds... what else do we got?

Sounds like a good Idea,
Not beeing too pesimistic, but it was a bit harder than I thought to find pictures that are
1. Black and white, or with enough contrast when converted to B/W

2. 1:2 format 80 pix * 160 pix
Somehow the format 1:2 isn't much liked by photographers.

3. still make sense in 80 pix * 160 pix

But today picture processing software are much better than when most old LBM's where made.


Cheers
/John T.