Stellar Manipulation Suggestion for 1.42

[CW]

Just about the only weapon that lets you defeat an overwhelmingly powerful foe is my favourite, the allegiance subverter. Add in a Computer Virus III if you are fighting MC ships. It doesn't always work, and you have only one shot, but if it does magic happens!

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Hence a wise general makes a point of foraging on the enemy. One cartload of the enemy's provisions is equivalent to twenty of one's own, and likewise a single picul of his provender is equivalent to twenty from one's own store.

Sun Tzu, "The Art of War", Chapter 2

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[This message has been edited by CW (edited 05 September 2001).]

[Magus38]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I am aware of the 10 WP limit, but this hardly seems a solution, rather it simply exploits a limitation of the system and so merely provides an awkward workaround (this is not to say that I wouldn't do it in extremis though).

A good general (as Sun Tzu makes clear) always seeks to match concentration against dispersion. You are constantly seeking to be elsewhere than your opponent believes you to be, attacking where he believes you will defend, etc. To accomplish this you must know yourself, know your enemy and know the terrain. Unfortunately, WP technology renders the terrain essentially unknowable.

This has bothered me for some time actually, I am surprised that it has not been as issue before as it is so obviously destructive to strategy. All you can do in such a situation is react.

[Deathstalker]

I am in a PBW game right now where wormholes are opening up all the time, usually with a fleet of 100+ ships (mostly baseships) right behind it. NOT GOOD!! This lack of defense against wormholes combined with no way to retreat from tac/strategic combat are IMO the two biggest deficiencies in se4.

I second the motion to have a 'gravity well' device or somesuch that prevents wormholes from entering a specific system (and a device that does not take 20+ turns to build!!!!)

<That and how about an option for 'emergency build' that applies to RESEARCH!, would work wonders!>

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"And what the hell would you know about sanity?" demanded Beatrice. "There are depressed lemmings on the edge of cliffs who've got a better grasp on reality than you have. And more common sense."--Simon R. Green 'Deathstalker Rebellion'.

"We are all...the sum of our scars"....(paraphrased) Matt. R. Stover-'Blade of Tyshalle'.

"Memory," the old man said softly, "is tricky. I have learned two things from it. One: That without meaningful memories, there is no life. Two: that we are desperate for our lives to make sense, to have meaning,--and at a great enough remove , all memory is malleable." -Michelle West 'Sea of Sorrows', SunSword book IV.

[CW]

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I second the motion to have a 'gravity well' device or somesuch that prevents wormholes from entering a specific system (and a device that does not take 20+ turns to build!!!!)

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I'd rather not see that happen! It will make WP openers totally worthless! Better take the second option suggested with a bit of amendment - make the newly created warp points unstable for a few turns, let them be VERY unstable to start with then gradually stabilise out. A very desperate opponent can take the chance and risk his fleet wiped out by sending it straight through a newly created warp point, on the other hand you can play it safe by giving up your element of surprise - the longer you wait the less chance/degree of damage.

[Deathstalker]

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I second the motion to have a 'gravity well' device or somesuch that prevents wormholes from entering a specific system (and a device that does not take 20+ turns to build!!!!)
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I'd rather not see that happen! It will make WP openers totally worthless!
"

Simple to fix, just have a new Intelligence project added to destroy the 'gravity well' or whatever is keeping the wormhole from opening. Or find out from an 'ally' which planet the device is on and send a cloaked stealth ship to bomb it. The point I was trying to make is that there should be a 'counter' for every action. (or maybe the device should slow the wormhole opening, make it take 2 turns or something, give you warning....Or heck, how about just giving Stellar Tech wormhole devices different levels (I, II, III etc) and needing an 'upgraded' device to defend vs. each level (need device II to defend against a wormhole opener I or II but III still works))

Just some more food for thought......

[capnq]

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Simple to fix, just have a new Intelligence project added to destroy the 'gravity well' or whatever is keeping the wormhole from opening.

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Does that need a new project? I'd think there's already a facility destroying project in there some where. (I don't know for sure, because I've only ever researched past Intel 2 twice so far.)

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Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

[Rollo]

I disagree that Stellar Manipulation (WPO, Warp point opening) should be altered in any way.
SE IV prior to WPO could be compared to World War I. It is essentially a trench war. Everybody tries to defend choke points as good as possible. Sometimes the enemy gets through, sometimes not. You can always fall back or have additional lines of defense.
When WPO comes into play that all changes. Static defenses are useless, mobility is the key (WW II, tanks, Blitzkrieg). What's so bad about it? It's a great thing to break stalemates and deal out some serious (if not lethal) damage to your enemy. You have to adjust to that and make use of it, instead of thinking how to change it.

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originally posted by Magus38:
This has bothered me for some time actually, I am surprised that it has not been as issue before as it is so obviously destructive to strategy. All you can do in such a situation is react.

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If you find this so destructive to strategy, why don't you make it part of your strategy and disrupt your opponents plans?

Honestly, if can grow a healthy empire and wage war against your enemy with "conventional methods", while diverting some resources to develop and build WPO (not to mention another fleet to send through) then you have done well and deserve to win. Just don't put too much into stellar manipulation or your enemy will crush you before you ever opened one warp point . IMHO, this is one of the great aspects of the game. No need to change it. There doesn't have to be a counter measure (gravity well device) for everything in the game, let alone a counter measure against the counter measure (Intel project to destroy gravity device).

If both sides have the ability to do this and send a hundred base ships through. Well great, than we have nuclear war. No defenses, no survivors, mutual destruction assured, the end of all (Maybe, it's time to make peace and talk arms reduction? ).

Just my opinion,
Rollo