Soviet auto-loaders

[scJazz]

REALITY CHECK!!!

The term ROF found in the OOBs is not a 1 to 1 reflection of the actual rate of fire of any weapon in this game!

Don and Andy have said as much in this thread and others.

ROF in the OOBs is one count that one factor in determining the actual ROF of a unit. The ROF figure also appears to have some consequences on other values as well. Therefore could we please just drop the whole bloody subject about weapon system X having only a ROF of 4 when weapon system Y has 5? Most especially drop it if the complaint is related to such and such Western weapon system should blast the hell out of such and such ex-WP weapon system!

Finally as Don and Andy have pointed out multiple times as well don't sit and look through the OOBs and complain about foo being to low/high without whipping out a test scenario and seeing what screwing around with a value does!

[kevineduguay1]

Yes scJazz, they are right to a point.

At experiance 75 to 99 an M1 Abrams has a ROF of 4. If it moves a little more than its full movement allowance the ROF is reduced to 3. Full movement reduces this to a 2 ROF.

T-80UMI BARS with experiance from 50 to 74 has a ROF of 3+1 Reflex ATGM. An Abrams in the same experiance class has a ROF of 3, as do any tank not armed with a gun tube launched ATGM.

When you put the Russian tanks in the experiance range of 75 to 99, their ROF jumps to 4 main gun rounds plus 2 ATGM shots if the tank sits still. In a test scenario at least one Russian tank when I played the Russian side was able to fire off all the main gun rounds and all the ATGM for a total of 6 shots.
In this range the Russian built tanks with gun tube launched ATGM have a 2 shot advantage over the Abrams or any other Western tank for that matter.
The Russian 2 shot advantage continues through the 100+ experiance ranges.
At the extream experiance rating of 255 the Abrams or any tank without a gun tube launched ATGM has a ROF of 9.
A Russian built tank with a gun tube launch ATGM capable main gun can fire 9 rounds a turn, plus 4 ATGM.
Now it is true that if the Russian built tanks move more than 3 or 4 hexes they tend to loose the ability to fire their ATGMs, this is as it should be.
Do I have a solution? Yes, but not the knowledge to make it happen.
Useing the experience rating to reflect ROF works well with a hand loaded main gun. But when trying to illustrate a mechanical device (auto-loader) that is not really effected by how fast a human can move or how well he is trained. It is IMHO that weapons of this type (with tank main armmament auto-loaders) have there own class and have their ROF hard coded.
Just an idea.

[kevineduguay1]

There may be a temporary solution. If you raise the ROF of Western tanks to 14 this will raise the on board ROF of their main guns by 1. This will at least help. Going higher, (like into the 20s or more) have effects that could tip the balance of play too much.

Test it! I did!

Edit, This should only apply to Western tanks after the Russians have gun tube launched ATGM.

Edit, P.S. DRG ROF can be changed!

[Marcello]

Some interesting bits

http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/

"What makes T-64-style autoloader notably faster than that of T-72 is the presence of 'sequence' mode. When it is enabled, the loading mechanism continuously loads the rounds of the same type without any gunners intervention. In addition, the rotation of the carousel to get the new round is done immediately after the previous round has been loaded, in parallel with the firing procedure. This allows to perform all the blocking loading operations in under 5 seconds. T-90 has received similar advancement in autoloader logic.

Advances in the autoloader design along T-64 and T-80 line also include the reverse rotation of the carousel thus allowing much faster cycles when the magazine is partially depleted."

Of course the above does not apply to older T-72s and the accurate representation of barrel fired ATGMs
is a problem in the game, just like ERA.BUT the fact that your T-80UM can pump out rounds as fast as an Abrams is not really a mistake.With an adequate loading plan for the autloader it should be able to do that.

[Marcello]

"Even now they only have a modified suspention of a T-54."

I do not get it.Can you explain me how the suspensions of a T-64 are the same of a T-54? The layout seems quite different to me.

[Alpha]

comke on, the M1 is crap, russian stuff much better !

[Alpha]

)))

[kevineduguay1]

Alpha,

Things are looking up with this new PATCH!

[DRG]

kevineduguay1 said:

Edit, P.S. DRG ROF can be changed!

Congratulations. You discovered that if you toss oddball numbers into the OOB's sometimes you can get the results you want even as people tell you the reason you want to do it is flawed and WILL throw the game balance off ( yep kevin.. it is a game ). Depending on the experience 13 or so will get you one extra and 17 or so will get you two more. And giving all the "western" tanks a one shot advantage on top of all the other advantages they enjoy will satisfy you and maybe a handful of other people but that's it. I am not changing the official game OOB's. They do not need to be. The other factors already give "western" tanks all the advantage they need and the game plays well.

Don

[kevineduguay1]

DRG,

I did test the higher numbers and it was too much. But the ability to fire one extra round will at least close the ROF gap with out having to go to almost unrealistic experience ratings.
With my suggested ROF the Western tanks within the same experience rating field will still have a one shot dis-advantage unless moving were they would gain a shot.
Also when the Russian built tanks run out of ATGM and both sides have the same experience their ROFs will be even.