Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book one)

[Starhawk]

El_Phil when it comes to religous supression, again the problem with your theory is that the vast bulk of the Icarans are followers of "The Path" religion (which btw is a similiar religion to the earliest christianity but has changed over the millenia) so they are not supressed, the bulk of what's left is the Asiatic "holdouts" who are buddhists so the vast majority of the population is not supressed at all.

The handful of other faiths within the Empire are as I said not actively hunted (except cults who are seen as a major threat) as long as they don't try to do anything overly active in the public. It's simply a matter of them not being approved of by either the government or the mainstream Icaran populace. So yeah they are supressed but the average Icaran wouldn't much care because it doesn't effect them which is a bad point for rebellions.

As Dogscoff said their Buddhists are not something those living in our world would recognize fully, but the changes are on a subtle level.
Buddhism is as stated also very diverse because as we saw the Japanese of WWII who were "buddhist" certianly did not stick to the peace, love and enlightenment philosophy.
For that matter Japan has not followed this at any point in history so saying being buddhist instantly means your a pascifist is slightly flawed. Sure the monks are but the average buddhist?

Granted the ESS buddhism came mainly from the Chinese branch but there to we see that they were willing to wage war throughout history, it's just that they were less "active" about it. (Fewer battles but bigger and in later dynasties mainly defensive against Huns/Koreans, Mongols and Japanese/Koreans).

Some buddhist philosophy does actually also include living budda's in mythology and if the Icarists/Buddhists belive the Praetor is one of these it would not be totally unlike the Icarans "Living Saint" philosophy.

In regards to brave new world isn't that the one where they were all "Get stoned it's good for you and sleep with as MANY people as you possible can?" and "Long term relationships are bad."
Because that sorta doesn't fit in with a near Theocratic government And as stated Icaran school children actually see "posters" with the exact opposite messages.

Or was that stuff just the movie version with Spock I mean Nemoy?

[Hunpecked]

I seem to recall from an earlier part of Starhawk's saga that the "modern" Icaran Empire "re-educates" criminals instead of executing/imprisoning them. Presumably the same thing could be done with inconvenient religious zealots.

Um, Starhawk, are you SURE you didn't read "1984"?

[Alneyan]

Starhawk said:
In regards to brave new world isn't that the one where they were all "Get stoned it's good for you and sleep with as MANY people as you possible can?" and "Long term relationships are bad."
Because that sorta doesn't fit in with a near Theocratic government And as stated Icaran school children actually see "posters" with the exact opposite messages.

Or was that stuff just the movie version with Spock I mean Nemoy?

That would be roughly correct, as far as the ideas go, but ideas are easy enough to alter. You could easily make up a "solitude, work, self-growth" society based on the same mechanisms as Brave New World: only the ideals change, but not how you can... convince all your citizens to follow them. Brave New World does have some religion, or more accurately, religiosity.

More generally, Brave New World is more of a twisted utopy than anything else, where government really knows what is best for the whole people, and implements these schemes. That basic idea sounds a lot closer to your own Icarians than 1984, though details are hardly the same.

This post should be considered when we vote for "Most Obscure Post Ever".

[Starhawk]

This post should be considered when we vote for "Most Obscure Post Ever".

LOL your right about that Alneyan

Well Icara I guess is pretty much a cross between "Brave new World" and "1984" from what you folks are saying.

Unlike 1984 the Icaran government is not some overly cruel saddistic power block that enjoys mercilessly hurting it's people, however Icara DOES have some of the similar (re-education and indoctrination) philospohies from what it sounds like.

And unlike "Brave New World" Icara is a society where monogomy is more then simply recommended but practically demanded and where drug abuse or anything that harms your body is seen as almost sinful. (Remember right from "Kindergarden" on up Icaran schools emphasize physical education and maintaining your body's health through exercise)

So I guess Icara is a "Brave new 1984" hehe, seriously though if I do manage to write a book it wouldn't suprise me if as Hunpecked said people compare Icara to 1984 or Brave New World. And I suppose I would be pleased in a sense as my work was being compared to two very famous books.

As long as no one compares Icara to the Federation of Planets or the "Terran Empire" anymore I'll be happy

I do have to admit I laughed my butt off when soemone who read some of my story said "So Icara is basically the Star Trek UFP."

[El_Phil]

You really should read 1984. Nothing to do with anything in this thread or your book read it just for itself. The fact it will be helpfull for this book is just a benefit.

This following bit is my impression of that part of the book, others may (will? ) disagree.
The opression in 1984 is not for fun and isn't slightly sadistic (In the classical 'someone enjoys doing it' sense). It is to crush any opposition, at all. You don't just kill traitors or rebels, you make them admit they're wrong and make them love the goverment. Reduce them to nothing but love for the leader and then put them out of their misery. Not a 'I'll say anything under torture' admission, but a genuine feeling/thought.

But that is just one of the many excellent facets of the book. So much of it has entered popular culture, and it's so damn good as a book, that anyone calling themselves an author really should read it.

[dogscoff]

And unlike "Brave New World" Icara is a society where monogomy is more then simply recommended but practically demanded and where drug abuse or anything that harms your body is seen as almost sinful. (Remember right from "Kindergarden" on up Icaran schools emphasize physical education and maintaining your body's health through exercise)

The values being enforced may be different, but what's important is the fact that they are enforced. It would be well worth reading brave new world and 1984, and then trying to find similarities in the two distopias described. Despite their superficial differences, you will see that they are very much the same in prinicipal. Then think about your Icarans, and try to decide if you have created a Utopia, a Distopia or something in between.

[Starhawk]

Good advice I'll read them both (I saw the Brave New World movie but I doubt it was much like the book) although from my understanding I'd call the Icarans a cross between a Utopia and a distopia because they have some major bonuses over any modern government but they also have some obvious (by our opinion of right and wrong) drawbacks to their government and culture.

[El_Phil]

Well there's bonuses for the people then there's bonuses for the people in power. Quite a large distinction there, unless you count indoctrination from birth as a good thing for the average person.

Because I'd say it's not even close to a Utopia, the nearest is a garunteed job. That aside it's not looking too good for individuals, although good for keeping the bosses in power.