OT: Stop IE

[El_Phil]

Ohh that's the kind of talk that attracts Thermodyne. Probably with some comment about how we all must change now, and you're a fool if you don't. Just a prediction

As for me, I've found an IE addon that does tabbed browsing and better searching. Never had a problem with IE, not speed nor security so why change? If I went to dodgy sites then maybe I'd be slightly safer, but probably not. Frankly if the site doesn't support IE it's the sites problem, not the browser. If you don't support the 85%+ market leader your stuborn or stupid.

I don't like Bill or MS, but you must deal with life as it is, and at the moment IE is king regardless of its faults.

[NullAshton]

Sites for IE works for all the other browsers, so why not design it for IE first? Works in all the other browsers, looks the same, more convient for those people who still use IE.

[Fyron]

NullAshton said:
Sites for IE works for all the other browsers, so why not design it for IE first? Works in all the other browsers, looks the same, more convient for those people who still use IE.

This could not be further fom the truth. Sites have to be hacked away from w3c standards to work with IE bugs. Sites should be designed for w3c standards, not the IE bug set! Those standards exist for a reason. Most browsers do not make allowance for IE bugs, but instead implement the w3c standards.

If you don't support the 85%+ market leader your stuborn or stupid.

Sites should be designed for w3c standards, not the IE bug set. Good site design follows w3c, then is forced to deviate to allow for poor-quality browsers (aka IE) to still work.

[wilhil]

do I really care about designing for w3c standards, NO! I will develop for what is popular, and as long as that is internet explorer, I have no reason to change.

over half the sites out there are probably not w3c fully compatible, but look, the internet is not shuting down, failing, or anything. IT WORKS! get used to it!

this website is great! if it has any png images, I would never know, I am not seeing any problems, if png was THAT popular for websites, I am sure everyone would start using it, and then microsoft would make it compatible, although I went to a website with png images, and found NO problem. I use IE almost all the time, I have never seen a problem with images,

I see you did not quote el_phil saying:
Frankly if the site doesn't support IE it's the sites problem, not the browser. If you don't support the 85%+ market leader your stuborn or stupid.

I have to agree with this.

If mozilla or other browsers get over 30% share, then I will start using standards, but as far as I think, my sites work in IE, my sites work in mozilla, but why should I make extra care to make sure they work in mozilla when the user base is a fraction of IE

This is frankly a rediculous argument that always comes up, I have no problem with IE, and why should I change something that works fine, and I have no problems with, just because you are saying IE does not comply with standards that I do not need to use as my site works with IE, and other useless points.

I am sure there are more sites on the internet that are compatible with IE and more importantly WORK in IE than sites that are w3c standards, so I from this moment am going to start a new standard, IE compatible! and my sites are compatible with it, long live forever IE compatible, die w3c!

[wilhil]

Internet Explorer - Slow or Fast?
Despite being bloated, standards uncompliant, buggy and dangerous, Microsoft's Internet explorer is fast. It is fast however due to the simple fact that it is integrated into windows and because it has a stone-age, limited rendering engine.

// I have NEVER had speed problems

So, even though being technically fast,
// OH, SO THEY WENT BACK ON THEIR FIRST POINT???
it does not render the page well. You may not be able to read the text correctly, or have some other problem due to its rendering. So in reality - it can be slow.
//BS! I am a internet junky! I go on so many news sites daily, forums, and a whole load more, I HAVE NEVER had a rendering problem, and I have a 8mb/s connection, my connection is never slow, the truth with pictures and others coming is deep in mozilla code, it has a minimum of 8 connections to a webserver, which in actuall facts, when a webserver is having 1000 clients connecting to a image heavy site, this is the equivilant of 8000 connections, slowing down a webserver, so it can be quicker, where as IE has a default of I think 2, this can be changed in the registry. This setting is more generous to webservers, and if changed, the speed can be improved


Tabbed browsing - Seems quicker
Tabbed browsing allows the user to open and view many pages at once, across many different websites. You can open a link 'in a new tab', and while it is loading, you can continue reading the page you are on.
//I agree, tabbed browsing is great, but it makes no diffrence to shift clicking and opening a new window, then alt tabing back.


This definitely (for dial-up users anyway) makes the internet seem faster. Tabbed browsing is a feature that IE does not support.
// It does with addons. If you are using dial up in 2005, you really only have yourself to blame!

However, the alternatives do.

Standards resistance = slower internet
Because Internet Explorer doesn't support CSS properly (faster download, because a page's design must only be loaded once, then just content), programmers and web designers must use 'hacks', or old or invalid code (takes longer to load). This means IE is slowing the entire Internet down significantly!
//I have not got a lot of experiance with css, but I would of thought that the css file would need to be downloaded each time you go to a diffrent page, so hows this diffrent, css is mainly a way for web developers to easily update mass sites in one go, with fonts and stuff, it makes no diffrence to the user if the site is css or not, I could be wrong here, but I do not really 100% understand the new css, I use the old css, and it works fine!


Web developers must go to extra lengths to make PNG alpha transparency, drop-down menus, and many other nice features work in Internet Explorer.
//ahh, BS, I use JPG, works great!

Internet Explorer: Increased costs for all
Because web designers need to charge higher prices to ensure that pages work in Internet Explorer, their clients must pay extra. These costs are then passed down to you, the consumer.
//nope, just use visual studio.net 2003 for asp.net or frontpage for normal html and asp, it works great, and always compatible with IE, view my last part in my last post.


Speed up the Web? Get rid of Internet Explorer
Get an alternative to Internet Explorer. You'll be saving money for people, and speeding up the web for yourself and others.
// sounds like someone just hates microsoft.

[Fyron]

I HAVE NEVER had a rendering problem...

Because site designers are forced to use terrible hacks to work with IE bugs. That's the whole point... HTML code should work identically in all browsers WITHOUT special hacks. Thus, the w3c standards.

...mozilla code... a minimum of 8 connections to a webserver

More like 2...

//I agree, tabbed browsing is great, but it makes no diffrence to shift clicking and opening a new window, then alt tabing back.

This is true. However, it is very messey to have 8 or 9 windows open. Tabs are an excellent organizational tool.

...If you are using dial up in 2005, you really only have yourself to blame!

How elitist of you.

//I have not got a lot of experiance with css, but I would of thought that the css file would need to be downloaded each time you go to a diffrent page

Not at all. The browser cache stores 1 copy of the CSS file that does not need to be downloaded over and over again. It makes a huge difference in bandwidth and loading times.

Web developers must go to extra lengths to make PNG alpha transparency, drop-down menus, and many other nice features work in Internet Explorer.
//ahh, BS, I use JPG, works great!

Wow... just wow. Yay for stifling innovation!

//nope, just use visual studio.net 2003 for asp.net or frontpage for normal html and asp, it works great, and always compatible with IE, view my last part in my last post.

Front Page is one of the worst web page design tools out there. It creates bloated, buggy code. It most assuredly does not produce "normal HTML."

Speed up the Web? Get rid of Internet Explorer
Get an alternative to Internet Explorer. You'll be saving money for people, and speeding up the web for yourself and others.
// sounds like someone just hates microsoft.

Umm... no, it doesn't.

[Renegade 13]

wilhil said:
If you are using dial up in 2005, you really only have yourself to blame!

I'm sorry, but this is blatently untrue. Where I live right now, in the center of British Columbia, Canada, outside of a city, all we have access to is dial-up. Satellite: Maybe. Far far too expensive though. Cable: Nope. ADSL: Nope.

And I'm to blame for this...how?

[wilhil]

Renegade 13 said:

I'm sorry, but this is blatently untrue. Where I live right now, in the center of British Columbia, Canada, outside of a city, all we have access to is dial-up. Satellite: Maybe. Far far too expensive though. Cable: Nope. ADSL: Nope.

And I'm to blame for this...how?

yeah sorry for that comment! I can admit when I am wrong, but still, there is a huge percentage of users with broadband now adays as where it is, it is usually cheap and affordable, if you do not have it in your area, Im sorry and retract that comment!

[bearclaw]

In my profession (real estate) we use many online resources. I am the computer tech for our real estate board. ALL of the online resources require IE for our realtors to use them. Online forms and such that we use will not function with anything else. I've tried.

So from the point of view of business applications, IE isn't going anywhere.

[Fyron]

Blame poor web site designers that do not design for standards.