Machaka in CB

[Saber Cherry]

Cainehill said:
In addition, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the Hunter Lord. Prophetize one, and it's an instant, turn 3 thug, almost a mini-SC, and that's without even giving it anything like a charcoal shield or amulet or luck.

I've never even considered that... a Bane Spider or 4-holy Voice is always too tempting. But it's an interesting idea, especially once your prophet turns into a dumb animal that can no longer share his revelations with the masses, but has 150 HP...

I can't remember ever having a riderless Hunter Lord. Does the mount still have leadership?

[halfzware]

You know what. In what might be an absolute first in the history of internet forums, I'm gonna admit I think I am wrong.

With an E9N9 bless, they really might be worth it. I always tested them with F9/somethingelse, but the protection bonus from berserk and the protection from e9 actually makes the second form useful - and make both survivable with regen.

[Arralen]

• Regen is based on current hitpoints. As long as we're talking about Black Hunters, not the spiders, IMHO regen is negligible @ 2HP/turn.
• Afflictions carry over, maybe with %tage.
• With F9x9 bless, you can turn every blessable unit into a killing machine. At least, if it has more than 1 attack per turn. That only shows that the fire bless is unbalanced, not that the troops are good.
• F9 bless alone does not turn the Black Hunters into fearsome killing machines: they die to fast to do real damage. And the Hunter Spider have only 1 lousy weapon ..
• N9 bless alone only makes sure the unit is ganged upon and -sooner than later- killed by the inevitable very high or critical roll on the 2D6oe. Especially, as the knight only regens 2 HP/turn and gets +2 fat/turn when berserking.
• N9E9 bless is not nearly as good as F9x9 bless, but very good nevertheless. Better on Jotun Herses than on Black Hunters, though.
• Yes, riderless hunter lords keep their leadership and experience. Dunno if they even keep their magic - guess they do @-1, because it's a 2nd, animal form. At least the other commander which can change voluntarily do.

[Cainehill]

Arralen said:
Regen is based on current hitpoints. As long as we're talking about Black Hunters, not the spiders, IMHO regen is negligible @ 2HP/turn.

True, it's not a lot of regen - but with 27 protection, they don't tend to take much damage, even with the open-ended roll. And because they go berserk, they tend not to rout, even in small numbers, often driving the opposing forces from the field after they would have routed, if not for berserk.

So - 2 regen I find is often enough, especially since, as importantly as anything, it gives 1/10 the chance of afflictions. Oh, and the E9 bless gives 4 fatigue back a turn, so they don't accumulate fatigue so quickly as to allow their protection to be halfed.

Yes, riderless hunter lords keep their leadership and experience. Dunno if they even keep their magic - guess they do @-1, because it's a 2nd, animal form. At least the other commander which can change voluntarily do.

Don't remember if they keep the magic, but definately keep leadership - my prophet stayed prophet after losing the rider, and was still leading the other spiders around. Think he still had enough holy for blessing, although I usually try to send a cheap priest to do that since the hunter lord does have spell casting encumbrance of 16.

[halfzware]

I ran a bunch of tests on black hunters over the last couple nights.

The N9 bless isn't worth it for regen on the first form, the benifit is berserk adds attack - which the hunters need as their attack rating sucks (for high end troops). Also, the berserk + e9 bless brings their armor to 27 i think, which gives them survivability against non-ap troops.

The second form also benifits from the dual bless giving them over 20 armor, and 5-6 pts of regen - which again... makes them worth it.

If you use them in packs of 5 or more, they are imo actually worth it, as they're capable of handling groups of 15 knights solo (with support they should keep their casualties and afflictions low enough to make it worth while).

[PrinzMegaherz]

I find it actually kind of strange that the black hunters do not spread fear. Actually, I can't imagine something that is more terrifying than a huge hairy spider.

[Saber Cherry]

PrinzMegaherz said:
I find it actually kind of strange that the black hunters do not spread fear. Actually, I can't imagine something that is more terrifying than a huge hairy spider.

Imagine yourself, at the army recruiting center, with four possible assignments:

1) Front lines, against berzerk flaming spiders of Machaka.
2) Scout out the Unfettered that may be oozing around the area, devouring villages.
3) Sleep with an Illithid until you conceive a Star Child.
4) Go into the Void Gate, and, uh... pray.

Dominions isn't a pretty place. I don't like big, hairy spiders either, but... they might not be the scariest things out there. Personally I'm much more afraid of giant lampreys. A nation consisting entirely of kangroo-legged bipedal leeches and lampreys would be horrifying, especially if they could latch-on to enemy soldiers's backs, drill into their spinal columns with a toothed tongue, and puppet the host's body while its mind is still conscious by directly driving the spinal nerve axons, forcing them to fight their friends while screaming "Get it off me! It's sucking me dry!!"

Spiders are scary the way space ameobas or carnies are scary. Kangaroo-leeches, especially undead ones, are utterly terrifying - like multivariable calculus final exams.