From the Begining New Chapter Added (9/12/06)

[Hunpecked]

Nice switch from the frontline "Glory Navy" to the rear echelon "Working Navy". I think Starhawk has correctly portrayed the crew of such a ship: rookies, screw-ups, and pre-retirees.

The young crew members of both ships in Part 1 remind me of the Royal Navy in the age of sail, with its teenage midshipmen and pre-pubescent powder monkeys. However, given the size of the Icaran Empire, the navy's ability to draw on both manpower and womanpower, and the Icaran life span, I doubt the armed forces would need to recruit children. Moreover, the complexity of interstellar craft relative to sailing ships would seem to make an advanced education a prerequisite for service. Finally, adding "jailbait" (of both sexes) to the crew of a man-o-war on extended duty would seem to be a recipe for trouble, no matter how thorough the Icaran indoctrination and crew screening techniques.

As for the "pirate" ship, I was expecting it to strike when the Forlorn's crew was slightly weakened by the departure of its boarding party. I'm curious to see what circumstances the enemy considers even more favorable.

[Starhawk]

Hey Hunpecked it's always great to hear from you I really learn a lot from your critique of my story and it helps me find what i need to correct or go into more depth on.

Yeah I figure that since the "Ships of the Line" of the Icaran Royal navy only engaged in full on battles since you obviously wouldn't dispatch a squadron of your most powerful battleships to capture a few smugglers. There had to be someone to do the "scut work" that had no glory, or "honor" to it, they simply do the ugly job no one wants like stopping smugglers or pirates.

As far as the young crew, Icaran society is not quite like ours in the regards to children in the work force, they are considered adult at 13 and are usually pretty well educated by then (remember the advanced schooling techniques I mentioned way back)additional schooling from that age on is pretty much what we would consider "college" level and higher. They also perform less "tech related" jobs aboard ship while they undergo training, for example they are mess cooks, gun crews, "janitors" that sort of thing. It also depends greatly one which Icaran world they come from.

For example on a world like Sparta it's actually SAFER aboard a navy warship then it is back at home (which is also oddly enough why the bulk of the Spartan soldiers are women) so the naval recruitment age on Sparta is 14. Many worlds are like this as well as it is on some worlds seen as merely a further education, or even a right of passage.

On many core worlds like Icara, Brandenburg and the like the minimum recruitment age would often vary, usually to around 16-17 years old.

As far as "jailbait" goes, well that's hard because as far as being attracted to a 14 year old "child" goes, well I think any adult whether aboard a warship or not would know better then to do something with her/him, remember there are fully adult crewmembers aboard ship it's not like they'd go months with nothing to look at but pre-teen girls/boys.

[Hunpecked]

Starhawk, thanks for clarifying the Icaran view of adulthood. It's interesting that the advanced educational practices in the story result in a social situation reminiscent of "primitive" Napoleonic Europe, when "children" labored alongside adults in the fields, shops, and armed forces, and often married in their early teens. The lack of automation in Icaran society (explained in an earlier post, as I recall) would tend to provide ample opportunities for inexperienced workers.

However, recent scientific studies suggest that the Icarans may be employing more than just advanced education here. Apparently the part of the human brain affecting judgment, self-control, planning, and organization doesn't fully develop until age 20 or after. If so, it would seem even highly trained teenagers would be at a disadvantage in unfamiliar situations, compared to their older peers.

On the other hand, the Icarans can probably pick and choose the best young recruits (even for the Working Navy), and teenagers tend to live up to what's expected of them. Under a strict merit system, the Icarans can promote the mature teens and defer promotion of the late bloomers. I found it interesting that the youngest crewman mentioned in the story is a female; even in the future, perhaps females still mature earlier than males?

As for jailbait, if the Icarans only recruit "adults" then the "problem" doesn't exist (presumably the age of majority is also the age of consent). However, the view that all the older "adults" would prefer their own company to that of the younger "adults" seems a bit naive--the novel "Lolita" isn't entirely a work of fiction. As an Icaran ship's captain, I'd tend to keep the cabin boy away from the chaplain, "adult" or not.

PBS's look at the neuroscience of adolescence:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ows/teenbrain/

[Starhawk]

Starhawk, thanks for clarifying the Icaran view of adulthood. It's interesting that the advanced educational practices in the story result in a social situation reminiscent of "primitive" Napoleonic Europe, when "children" labored alongside adults in the fields, shops, and armed forces, and often married in their early teens. The lack of automation in Icaran society (explained in an earlier post, as I recall) would tend to provide ample opportunities for inexperienced workers.

Yeah I sort of wanted to play on that in a unique way, after all with the science and technology to advance your education at an accelerated rate do you really get to stay a "child" in the eyes of society or are you expected to do what every other adult does and play your part?

However, recent scientific studies suggest that the Icarans may be employing more than just advanced education here. Apparently the part of the human brain affecting judgment, self-control, planning, and organization doesn't fully develop until age 20 or after. If so, it would seem even highly trained teenagers would be at a disadvantage in unfamiliar situations, compared to their older peers.

Well your not about to see any 16 year old officers and as I said most of the "youths" are in positions of relative unimportance during their training and indoctrination, the ground combat forces only recruit at age 17+ because of physical and mental maturity which is not AS Important when your just a naval gunner or mess cook.
Other then that it is possible they use "artificial" means to develope the brains of the youths I haven't quite decided on this point just yet.

On the other hand, the Icarans can probably pick and choose the best young recruits (even for the Working Navy), and teenagers tend to live up to what's expected of them. Under a strict merit system, the Icarans can promote the mature teens and defer promotion of the late bloomers. I found it interesting that the youngest crewman mentioned in the story is a female; even in the future, perhaps females still mature earlier than males?

Yeah the navy in particular is picky about their recruits and they have about 700+ billion humans on hundreds of worlds (that are all required to meet recruitment quotas) to chose from.

And heh yeah the reason the youngest crewmembers you'll likely see are female is because (not only in scientific) but in my own personal experience girls mature far faster then boys so they'd rather have mature crewmembers who can be more easily trained and disciplined.

As for jailbait, if the Icarans only recruit "adults" then the "problem" doesn't exist (presumably the age of majority is also the age of consent). However, the view that all the older "adults" would prefer their own company to that of the younger "adults" seems a bit naive--the novel "Lolita" isn't entirely a work of fiction. As an Icaran ship's captain, I'd tend to keep the cabin boy away from the chaplain, "adult" or not.

Well I'm not going to get into a debate about pedophiles here as that would just derail this whole storyline but I will say that most people I've met prefer company more their own age then those of people much younger then themselves.