Some Observations...(all are welcomed)

[Renegade 13]

I understand what you're saying PvK, and actually agree with most of what you've said in your last post.

My position has (obviously!) been a little dogmatic and closed-minded. Obviously there are extremes on both sides of the arguement, and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle, as I suspect it is in this case.

And now that I actually think about it, rather than just trying to defend my position, I guess a vegetarian's choice to not eat meat is their choice to make (and their loss in my opinion ) and really doesn't affect me too much. Though I must say there are several essential nutrients found in meat that are not found in vegetable food sources. Kinda argues for an evolutionary reliance on eating meat (if you believe in evolution of course).

As for how animals are treated, I can only say what I know to be true, which is how animals are treated in my direct experience and observation. Which, of course, is how they're treated here in Canada, where we have an absolute abundance of space to allow animals to roam somewhat freely. In the States, or other countries, I dunno. As for chickens...well I don't like eggs so I don't eat them and chicken isn't my favorite food anyway (I prefer hamburger or a nice juicy steak )I really don't know how they're treated (though I'll always have my doubts about the position espoused by animal rights activists. After all, they have an agenda. As, obviously, big corporations do as well. Seems people really can't believe anything that they themselves don't have direct experience with.

As for Disney movies, where else do people get the idea's that bears are cute, cuddly, harmless animals? Bears are not in any way harmless. Yet a lot of people in cities seem to believe they are. How did that notion become so prevalent??

Around here, animals such as bears and coyotes are shot on sight. If you don't, they kill your livestock, ruin your crops. Many people without experience outside of cities (and the movies which they were raised on) don't understand what animals such as bears are really like. They'd just as soon eat you as look at your. Granted, the difference between bears and food animals is quite significant, but the principal is the same.

Kwok, you're right. I was going a little overboard on the generalizations. Also correct about how companies pump chicken full of liquid so they can sell less chicken for a greater price. A stressed animal has a much lower quality of meat than one that doesn't know anything's wrong until it dies. Which is one reason why I have my doubts that food animals are horribly mistreated.

Anyways, I think I've stated my points far too frequently recently, and doubt that anyone on any side of the arguement will change their mind, so I think it's rather pointless to continue!!

[rdouglass]

It's kinda' funny that something from the Bible might be surprisingly relevant:

Romans 14:2-3 tells us, "One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him."

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Renegade 13 said:
.....I guess a vegetarian's choice to not eat meat is their choice to make (and their loss in my opinion ).....

Well, that "loss" is entirely your opinion. Whenever my family and I go to a party where we are the only vegetarians, and the host(ess) has prepared a "normal" and a vegetarian version of the same dish (for example pasta salad, lasagna, etc.), it's always the vegetarian version that's eaten first. Trust me.

[Renegade 13]

Strategia_In_Ultima said:
Well, that "loss" is entirely your opinion. Whenever my family and I go to a party where we are the only vegetarians, and the host(ess) has prepared a "normal" and a vegetarian version of the same dish (for example pasta salad, lasagna, etc.), it's always the vegetarian version that's eaten first. Trust me.

While I have no doubt that that is true, it definitely wouldn't be the same in my (or my family's) case We're all closer to carnivores than omnivores it seems

Kamog said:
Soon we won't have to kill animals to produce meat. According to this article, scientists are using stem cells to grow meat in a test tube!

Though I don't doubt that day is coming, I highly doubt it would actually taste like meat does today. If such a reality does come about, I bet "real" meat would be worth a premium compared to the "fake" meat.


"In the wild savannah of the Serengetti, the cheetah's having just killed their dinner, they soon discover to their horror that they just hunted and killed one of the Serengetti's stranger creatures, the Tofudabeest."

[Fyron]

Strategia_In_Ultima said:
...it's always the vegetarian version that's eaten first. Trust me.

If they were actually made the same, but the normal one included the meat, there would be no reason for this... Most of the time, people put extra vegetables into the "vegetarian" version, which naturally could make it taste better overall (not better than if it had the meat too, just compared to the more bland version). I've never seen a legitimate version of this, where the "normal" dish was the same as the vegetarian one plus meat...