OT: Al Ahram

[AMF]

Possum said:
We may disagree with everything they say and believe, but any insight into the thinking of our enemies is always valuable.

As far as I can tell, Al-Ahram is a regional egyptian paper whose audeince is people in the middle east. I would therefore caution that these people are not "our enemies" per se - taking "we" to mean the US and it's allies in the Global War on Terror, then our enemies are most certainly NOT the entire people of the middle east - rather, our enemies are Osama Bin Laden, and various other terrorists and people like him around the world. The people we are most desperately trying to make into our friends are, in fact, the moderate Arabs in the region.

A minor point that probably didn't need to be made explicit, but it is an important distinction nonetheless.

[Possum]

AMF said:

As far as I can tell, Al-Ahram is a regional egyptian paper whose audeince is people in the middle east. I would therefore caution that these people are not "our enemies" per se - taking "we" to mean the US and it's allies in the Global War on Terror, then our enemies are most certainly NOT the entire people of the middle east - rather, our enemies are Osama Bin Laden, and various other terrorists and people like him around the world. The people we are most desperately trying to make into our friends are, in fact, the moderate Arabs in the region.

A minor point that probably didn't need to be made explicit, but it is an important distinction nonetheless.

AMF, I see the point you're trying to make, but let's not delude ourselves with PC-ness here.

How much of Al-Ahram did you read?

I've been reading it semi-regularly for 2 years now, since I was shown this weekly special back in October 2004.

The basic editorial stance of Al Ahram is -

1. Hatred of the US and all US citizens.

2. Hatred of Israel and all jews.

3. Dedication to the extermination of the modern state of Israel.

4. Support for all anti-US and anti-Israel terrorists.

If that doesn't make them our enemies, then what does it take?

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Matthew 7:20

[AMF]

WE're talking past each other here.

I said: "our enemies are most certainly NOT the entire people of the middle east - rather, our enemies are Osama Bin Laden, and various other terrorists and people like him around the world. The people we are most desperately trying to make into our friends are, in fact, the moderate Arabs in the region."

I said this becuase you said: "If anybody here is really interested in what people in the Middle East think...Check out Al Ahram...[and]...any insight into the thinking of our enemies is always valuable"

Implying that the entire people of the middle east are our enemies. Which is totally wrong.

Now, whether or not Al Ahram represents "the mainstream" or "fundamentalists" or, indeed, whether those are in fact the same things, are different questions (and one's that I'm not really qualified to answer at the moment).

[Possum]

I disagree.

When it comes to any conflict between "infidels" (that's you and me) and any islamic state, other islamics will support the islamic state against the infidel every time.

It doesn't matter whether we were right or wrong to invade Iraq (I tend to think the latter myself); the mere fact that we are occupying Iraq makes all islamic people hate us.

IMO, the entire middle east outside of Israel and possibly Turkey are our de facto enemies, regardless of the diplomatic niceties.

The problem with your position is the phrase "moderate islamics". There ain't no such thing, bro, there just ain't no such thing.

[Phoenix-D]

Minor problem with that position, Possum. Namely the lowest estimate I've seen puts the Muslim population at 1.6 million..US citizens.

Going to be breaking out the concentrations camps anytime soon?

[Possum]

Low blow, Phoenix. That's a personal insult, and I object.

I did not, and will not ever, suggest any such thing.

[Phoenix-D]

You start insuinating that every Muslim is the enemy and I'll start pointing out the ad absurdem consequences of that. I don't think you would, but there are those who would, and they use statements very similar to yours.

Your statement was insulting to pretty much every non-insane Muslim on the face of the planet, by the way. Adds up to several hundred million people.