Vampires?

[mivayan]

FrankTrollman said:
Oh honestly who gives a crap? By the time you're slapping all that magic on somebody you might as well add "body ethereal" and start with any creature at all.

But then you have to give up one of the other five buffs.

The legend of how awesome Vampire Queens are was started by a man who played Ashen Fields Ermor and cheated for hundreds of gems starting from turn 1! Sure, he was unstoppable, but it wasn't because of the Vampire Queen.

Norfleet cheated? huh. I played against him a few times.

The Ancient Olhm can do everything the VQ is claimed to do except that he starts with magic that is actually useful (Water and Earth) and a decent pile of hit points. Vampire Queens have an awesome mystique about them, but they aren't even particularly good unless you happen to be a blood power.

Dominions 2 vampire queen....
If you accidently run an ancient olhm into some undead, it'll get tired. And die. A VQ has 0 encumberance.

If your opponent hates your ageless Olm enough, he'll cast vengeance of the dead 20 times, which will get through sooner or later. Doesn't work on undead.

An ageless olm, fighting constantly, will eventually get horrible afflictions. On a VQ they go away quickly.

And if you slightly overestimate an indep province, or a huge enemy army in your dominion, you're screwed with the Olm.

You cant put a hat and armor with +magic resistance on an ancient olm. Nor boots of quickness.

You cant attack a province 3 steps away any time you want.

[FrankTrollman]

Norfleet cheated? huh. I played against him a few times.

Yeah. Here is a report from his last game on turn 22:

Kristoffer said:

The full game with fatherland file has been recieved. We have checked for gem usage inconsistencies. Here are some numbers.

***

Summoned commanders (cost in gems):
4 Wraith Senator (100 D)
3 Spectator (36 D)
46 Dusk Elders (920 D)
- 2 empowered 1 step (60)
- 1 empowered 2 steps (75)
- 2 empowered in new paths (100)
27 Spectral Mages (270 D)
- 2 empowered from 2 to 3 (90 D)
3 Wraith Consuls (105 D)
2 Bane Lords (10 D)
2 Queen of Elemental Air (100 A)

This sums up to
1531 Death gems
100 Air gems
135 gems for empowerment

Norfleet the Ghost King - F4A5W4E4D5N3 (?)

Some items:
- 9 Wraith swords, 3 standard of damned (150 D * 0.75)
- 18 Dwarven Hammers
- 35 Clams
- no fever fetishes at a quick glance (one being made)

Gem income: 55 (15 Death) + 35 clam pearls

Sorceresses: none

***

Regarding Raven Feast. sqrt(unburied)/3 = gems.
Thus 14.400 unburied (pop loss of 144.000) needed for 40 death gems.


Keep further discussions on the matter civil, please.

And that's the story of how the Vampire Queen got put into the hall of fame as the top pretender. It was his favorite until she got nerfed, and then he switched to the Ghost King. Of course, his success was based on pulling in extra gems through a (now closed) turn report bug and playing a team that allowed him to conjure leaders from turn 1.

So the basic impetus to nerf the Vampire Queen in the first place was based on false information. Vampire Queen positions were able to crush all opposition but the same could have been accomplished with a Crone with the same "strategy".

An ageless olm, fighting constantly, will eventually get horrible afflictions. On a VQ they go away quickly

Sure. She essenntially has Recuperation. That's a great power. The Ancient Kraken was one of my favorite gods even in Dominions 2 when he was bugged so that he wouldn't ever cast Resist Poison on himself. The Lord of the Wild and the Black Bull are also great gods.

But they are also much cheaper than the Vampire Queen. All of them are. The Vampire Queen has advantages and disadvantages vs. other gods, but she is costed like a pretender with only advantages, and that makes her blow instead of suck.

-Frank

[mivayan]

Wow, heavy cheats.

So the basic impetus to nerf the Vampire Queen in the first place was based on false information.

There were huge flamewa- discussions beond that though. It was also popular as the best way to fight with your pretender without any risk at all, among newer players. Etherealness is nasty against any normal army.

But they are also much cheaper than the Vampire Queen. All of them are. The Vampire Queen has advantages and disadvantages vs. other gods, but she is costed like a pretender with only advantages, and that makes her blow instead of suck.

-Frank

Now, I guess so. NOW. In dominions 2.02, it was 110 points, path cost 40, dominion 2. Available to ermor.

[Corwin]

FrankTrollman said:

And that's the story of how the Vampire Queen got put into the hall of fame as the top pretender. It was his favorite until she got nerfed, and then he switched to the Ghost King. Of course, his success was based on pulling in extra gems through a (now closed) turn report bug and playing a team that allowed him to conjure leaders from turn 1.

BTW what was this turn report bug was about? How do you know that this particular bug was indeed what Norfleet used for his cheating?

[FrankTrollman]

There was a lot of discussion about it. Here's some of it:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...5751&Forum=f74,f82,f127&Words=cheating&Searchpage=0&Limit=100&Ma in=285610&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterang e=1&newerval=5&newertype=y&olderval=2&oldertype=y& bodyprev=#Post285751

-Frank

[KissBlade]

Dom II VQ was the premier chassis for pretender. Especially if you don't use CB. You get tons of free points with sloth 3, death: 3, misfortune 2. Counting the necessary Order 3, Magic: 3, that gives you 580 points, 150 less for the VQ. If you can't buff dominion and paths high enough for your VQ with 430 free points, I have no idea what you're doing with her then. That said, it is still safe to say that VQ is excessively nerfed in Dom III, but to say she was a consolation prize for Lord of the Wild is just misinformation.

[Amos]

Just remove Immortality and add Ethereal and Recuperation for all vampires. Problem solved. No more cheap tactics.

[UninspiredName]

So, basically, she'd be a Ghost King with Blood Magic?